He did this:
I don't know about last year, but this year his +/- has benefited from garbage time..Bonner is +15 so far this year when the game is out of reach, or when the game is basically over and he's inserted with a few minutes left..
I don't know if it means anything, last year might be different, I'm just saying for this year..
His teammates haven't impacted his +/- though, since he's also #1 in weighted on court/off court impact..
Depending on the matchups, 15-20 minutes off the bench, which is kind of the role he's playing now.
I think he is playing better this year, I was impressed how well he stayed with dirk. Even though dirk torched him.... But yeah we are missing the shot blocking and rebounding. We have given up too many second chance points this season! I always wondered why? I want to blame Bonner but idk. Last night when dirk had that tip in it was because George Hill didn't stay with him or even go to the basket for the board. I think Timmy was on the other side of the basket and dirk had a wide open lane to the basket!
i'll give it to the big fella, hes played good for last few games
Ya, Duncan contested Terry's shot on the p&r, I think it was Hill's assignment to rotate to Dirk, but I'm not sure..
Yeah I know I read my post again and it sounded kind of harsh. Even though Dice was all over him he still hit some crazy shots! But I was impressed that Bonner stayed with him and didn't bite on any of his pump fakes.
To me the issue with the Spurs is lack of consistent cohesion. Some games one player goes off and then isn't heard from again. Put another way, other than the first game, we have yet to see a consistent balanced attack. I think our best unit of Parker, Mason, Finley, Bonner, and Tim is, sadly, because it allows Tony and Tim to do all the work. Yes, having 3 point shooters balances the floor for them to get in the paint, but I think the net effect is that Tim and Tony have to do more of the heavy lifting, and not surprisingly, both of them are somewhat injured. The other negative effect is that the role players don't develop as they could or should and get used to standing around. Not surprisingly again, Bonner, Mason, and Finley all sucked horribly in the playoffs when they couldn't just stand around and wait for someone to pass them the ball.
Anyway, that's just a theory.
Also, regarding Bonner: I think Bonner is cool and I like his sandwich blog, however just because he's in position on defense doesn't mean he's actually playing good defense. He's playing defense according to the system, which means he understand where to be, but in no way does he impede the other player from scoring. The results are bad even if the effort is great. Yes, he's playing up to and beyond his potential. So, I don't think he should be criticized for not giving good effort, but I don't think fans should defend him in thinking he's being effective.
Yeah I would be happy to see him getting around that time. 20ish minutes or so is fine unless he's playing abnormally bad or good
Bonner is a good role player, he has a good shot and hustles out there- I'm pretty sure that his poor rep has more to do with the he was starting- pop even set him up for some gamewinners- and for those gamewinners and in the playoffs, he often choked. When that coincides with the first duncan team to lose in the 1st round, people are going to look for explanations and bonner is a nice red target, especially when horry/bowen (from the role player hall of fame) are essentially the players he replaced.
I'd have to see how much better his +/- is than everyone else. But if I had to pick out reasons his numbers might be inflated, I'd guess:
1) This team's inside-out offense favors a jump shooting big and he is a good target for the big 3 to pick up on, thus he gets an inordinate amount of high quality looks
2) because we no longer have as much "inside" in the inside-out offense (not necessarily his fault, what with the big 3's injury woes), we get more "outside" and so the team depends more on his ability to hit 3pters to win
3) pop's wacky rotations make stats in general difficult to rate for the spurs. maybe bonner was involved in more good experiments than bad. it goes to bonner's credit, but the way the way the coach sets up the team will always affect the player's rating, and maybe all this stat tells us is that pop is better (or more focused on) at getting the best of bonner than he is at getting the best out of player X.
in sum- the spurs need better than bonner, but they could do worse, especially for his price
Maybe Pop is more cognizant about putting him in good match-ups and sitting him when it's a bad match-up than he is with guys like Fin, Mason, etc.
Matt's a better defender than he gets credit for being, and even if he does give up buckets, it's only going to be 2 points, whereas when he scores, the team gets 3 points.
Also, if Matt is getting abused, he's probably going to cost himself fouls and therefore be taken out.
He is a good bench player. Nothing more, nothing less.
I hold judgment untill I see him contribute in games that matter, and the playoffs when he is known to just wet himself.
It's like this....
1. Chuck Norris
2. Dos Equis guy
3. Matt Bonner
The total of 3 pointers(all he is good for) he makes does not make up for all the points that he gives up on defense. He gets absolutely torched by opposing bigmen. I am glad that Pop came to his senses & yanked Bonner out of the starting lineup a whole 3 games into the season.
I think this is a very good theory, as I'm with ElNono regarding the +/- net points: It is much more telling for comparing different lineups than for judging a single player's performance.
Pop knows very well that Bonner is not a great presence under the basket and doesn't rebound much. So he knows he has to put in a big alongside Matt who provides those things.
I think Bonner profits from being in lineups that have an inside presence as well as guys that can drive it to the basket. That way, Bonner's strength (3 point shooting) is on display while his weaknesses tend not to weigh in that much.
Also, Bonner is a very good shooter and works very hard. Not the worst kind of player to have on your team - if you don't have to ask him to do things he just can't do (which was basically the case last season).
He could have gotten Nowitzki (and or Terry) ejected after that reach in... unfortunately they didn't bite... and Nowitzki went wild...
He's not mobile, he can't jump, he's really just a non-athletic white guy. It's sometimes tough to watch him play...but he constantly outworks people. It's easy to figure out why people don't like watching him play, and that's cause it's not pretty.
People get frustrated with him due to unrealistic expectations. He's a big man who plays outside...you can't really expect too much out of him.
That being said, he works hard and he knows his role. By knowing his role and recognizing his limitations, it allows him to consistently contribute on both ends of the floor.
I don't know what you do for a stats source, but can you subsection the data? Is Matt Bonner a flat track bully? You might be able to tell by finding +/- and +/- per minute against opponents whose team finished greater than .550 (from last season's data)? Or how about +/- in games the Spurs won vs. the Spurs lost?
I agree with lurker's theory. Besides, if Bonner has a positive impact on our team, why should the Spurs consider trading him, unless it is a clear upgrade? Pop knows how to make it work with Bonner.
I think is fairly simple really. Bonner is the only big Pop doesn't use in small ball. Our plus-minus in small ball this season and last were on the whole very bad. Not only that, but Bonner is consistently used in our team's best lineups. He is consistently used with 2 creators on the court at the same time. It is very rare to see just Manu/Bonner, Tony/Bonner, or Timmy/Bonner as you will with Dice, Kurt, or Blair.
He is a good role player though. The hate he gets here is unwarranted.
Agreed.
The only problem I got with him is his playoff play....
Now, does it make sense to play him a lot in the regular season to get wins and later on see him choke in the playoffs? I don't know...
One year may not be enough. We might not be able to draw a conclusion from just one year.
But after two years of this trend, the evidence is in and it is indisputable -- +/- is worthless.
That statistic is a bunch of bull . Nowitski was +30 in his face last night...more bonner = more losses.
Recognize.
can't wait till the Spurmz don't resign Bonner and the Lakers pick him up. He plays alongside Bynum or Gasol and lights it up from 3 and when your old asses are trying to close out he drops it in to one of the bigs and the posterize your lame asses. And then when you try to help and double team we kick it out to Bonner to drop a killer 3 in your face. Can't wait till Bonner gets on a good team and all you dumb assholes start saying, "Pop is a ing asshole for giving up Bonner, it's his fault that Bonner never developed into the star he is in L.A. OH GOD it hurts so bad to get beaten by a player I said I hated. I'm so ing stupid"
You assholes have a great above-average role player that can stretch a defense, your team just can't capitalize on his skill set by playing a wicked post-up game. Your complaining about the wrong teammate. Idiots. Spurmz. If you new anything about basketball you'd be greatful for his presence and effort, you'd realize who the real problem was and then promptly shut the up.
but by all means don't stop acting like jackasses, it's really entertaining to see you es your pants cause you can't figure out why your beloved Spurmz are LOSING.
Here's an example. Your mother-
she has a small mouth(even though she talks too much)
I don't slap her and call her a cause my is too big for her mouth. She still has a silky tongue and gives it all on her knees. Who am I to expect her mouth to just grow without me violently face- ing her?
It is what it is, the tries her giving oral and even though her vajajay is too loose(from popping your fatass out) she gives it her all and her butthole is tight so while one of her holes is superior, she works hard using the other two so all in all she's a great wednesday night. Hump Day is always good. I would never take her out on friday, cause I know her ceiling. We've been able to maintian a healthy relationship this way. and with my 7 day rotation of different talents I have an enjoyable week.
Laker Nation
Last edited by SpurmzKilla; 11-19-2009 at 10:34 PM. Reason: emision
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