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Oh, stop it.
We don't really know how great of a player Kobe is because none of us have ever played against him.
Just like when Jordan won his 3rd ring, nobody knew he was the GOAT. But his compe ors probably had a good idea. Jordan was the GOAT the first day he played basketball, we just didn't know it.
Oh, stop it.
It's the truth. Nobody knows. Bruce could very well be correct and he could be wrong. He probably knows more than we do.
Jordan was always the GOAT, we didn't know until after the fact; but guys who played against him probably knew years before we did.
Just respect Bowen's opinion.
None of us played against MJ and we know he's the GOAT.
Furthermore, Kobe would need to drop Gasol, keep Artest and a bunch of role players THEN win 6 rings to just get into the GOAT conversation.
I don't know about you, but I don't think it's happening...
That said, I don't need to play against Kobe to know he's going to retire as one of the best of all times...
I understand what your saying, but if your comparing player skill, how would Bruce Bowen know unless he has played under an alias during the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, and guarded all of the great players? You can only go on accomplishments, both team and individual, you cant say this guy is the best because i think he has the prettiest fade away, or has the most moves.
You also say, 'who better to say than the man who guarded him'. Well what about guys with comparable skill level to Kobe, such as Hakeem, Larry Bird, David Robinson, Oscar Robinson etc.... did Bruce Bowen ever guard those guys?
Going by your quote, Bowen's comment is only valid for wing players from 2001 onwards, because those are the only guys he has guarded. Kobe has actually been the best player since then.
Bruce Bowen is stoned.
We know MJ is the GOAT, but this wasn't until after he was done. Players who played against MJ personally probably knew years before we did that he was GOAT.
Bruce Bowen is saying Kobe's 2nd GOAT; he doesn't really have to do much more than get a couple more rings for that to happen.
We aren't playing "pretend" here.
No one can speak for the future. When Jordan was 28 and hadn't won a le he wasn't the GOAT. It's only after his accomplishments that he became the GOAT.
As of right now, today, the present, Kobe isn't the 2nd greatest player of all-time.
Maybe he ends up being the 2nd greatest player of all time...maybe he opts out of his contract and signs with the Grizzlies. Who knows, but none of that matters right now.
I accept that Bruce Bowen knows alot more about basketball than I do. So I accept the assessment that he thinks Kobe is the 2nd GOAT. He could very well be right. He could also be wrong. I don't think he is far from the truth.
And a few years from now we'll look back and say, damn, Bruce knew years before we did.
I disagree. Jordan was the GOAT at 28...he knew it; some of his opponents knew it but we didn't.
When we talk about Jordan being GOAT, that includes his early years too. He's not just GOAT in his 6th ring year. He was ALWAYS the greatest, it just wasn't publicly recognized until after the fact.
If Kobe does end up being recognized as 2nd GOAT, he always was, we just didn't know it but maybe Bruce does.
That's why I said the #2 SG of all time. I really have a hard time ranking alone over Russell. Even if he wins the next 3...
Wether you like it or not, sharing the court with arguably one of the most dominant centers in the last decade and a HOF is going to play against him when his individual accolades are talked about. Not really his fault. But nothing you can do about it either.
I respect your opinion though, even if I don't necessarily share it.
You're better than this.
I guarantee JR Rider thought he was the GOAT when he was 16 years old.
Thinking that you are the greatest doesn't make you the greatest. And none of Kobe's opponents have any idea what it would be like to guard Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, West, or Oscar. So i have no idea why you keep going back to that.
It's not about what the player thinks, it's not about what his opponents think, it's about what said player has done that makes him the greatest.
You have a good point of what the player thinks doesn't matter...I won't argue that.
But his opponents probably do have a good idea.
Let's put it this way.
In 5 years, if Kobe does get recognized as 2nd GOAT, was Bruce wrong?
Tiger wasn't the greatest golfer of all time when he was 2 years old. He's the greatest golfer now, because of what he's accomplished.
If you want to use your argument then there would never really be a "greatest." Because there would always be some unborn fetus, or egg, or sperm out there that was the "real GOAT" just waiting to be born. That fetus knew it all along.
Sounds good to me El Nono. I respect your high regard for Russell.
If you look at certain things about Mike's career that stood out, you knew he had the potential to be the GOAT. For example, consecutive seasons averaging over 50% FG shooting. That's incredibly hard to do.
He obviously ended up finding a coach and a system that enabled him to go from potential to actual reality over the years.
You have your own subjective meaning of 'greatness'. 99% of basketball fans and analysts use accomplishments, individual and team, when ranking and comparing players of past and present generations. Your the other 1%...
Do you agree then that LeBron is the greatest player of all time now? Since he has the best statistics the league has ever seen? What is your basis for saying Jordan was the GOAT before he won any rings?
top 12 before kobe even egts into consideration
michael jordan
kareem abdul jabbar
wilt
magic johnson
larry bird
moses malone
hakeem olajuwon
tim duncan
shaquille o 'neal
garnett
jerry west
oscar robertson
+ rep if i could, nice one
he had sex with your momma last night? that's who he is
None of those guys has more than 1 le. try again
If i say that there is a God...and the world ends and there actually ends up being a God, does that mean that i was "right" all along??
Well there's no way for me to definitively know that there is a God...so it was obviously just faith and a really good pick.
I'm sure Bruce believes what he says...but that doesn't make it true. There's no way for him to definitively know. And we won't know till we get there.
This is entirely about opinion. I don't think LeBron is GOAT, but I could be wrong. Bruce thinks Kobe is #2 GOAT, he could be wrong and he could be right.
Jordan was always the GOAT because it includes all of his accomplishments and his individual talent and drive.
If somebody saw Jordan playing in high school and said he was the GOAT, they would be correct. They had the correct opinion all along while the rest of us didn't have a clue.
That is my point; we don't know if Bruce is correct or not. He believes one way and we believe in another. Whose to say who is right and wrong?
We will eventually know if Bruce was right all along.
The whole point of my post was that Bruce has no idea how Kobe will be remembered 50 years from now.
He can only attest to right now....and as of right now, he's wrong.
Olajuwooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
lol at whoever put Duncan before Kobe.
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