The Official Fire Pop Thread

**HarlemHeat37** · 12-06-2009

The OP's post wasn't bad BECAUSE he criticized Pop..it was just a horrible post in general with tons of holes in it..

He discredits Pop for winning in 2003 because of Duncan, but then he gives Phil Jackson credit for winning with his stacked teams..he uses Larry Brown as an example when Larry has had some ridiculously bad seasons in the past few years, including alienating some players and making horrible moves to bring in guys like Steve Francis..

He makes comments like "Spurs don't wanna win as much as the other team", as if we can actually measure that..like he knows their effort level personally..

He ignores the fact that Phil Jackson was eliminated in the 1st round 2 years in a row, but coincidentally made a Finals following the Gasol trade..talent>>>coaching..

Criticize Pop if you want, but come harder with your argument..

Like Bill Simmons said in his book, coaching is severely overrated in comparison to talent..I agree that Pop hasn't done a good job this year, he deserves criticism, but he's still the best coach in the NBA, and he still does more positive than bad..if this team fired Pop, there would be 28 teams calling him a minute later..

Phil Jackson himself has admitted he hasn't even had to do much with this current Lakers team..when you have Kobe Bryant and 3 talented 7 footers, you don't have to do much..Laker fans still criticize him all the time for overplaying Fisher and some of their bench scrubs..

**Bender** · 12-06-2009

the Spurs don't want to win as bad as their opponents.

Originally Posted by stepmonkey

I made it this far before I quit.

what's the prob? I've gotten the same impression on several games.

**draft87** · 12-06-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

To show you exactly what's wrong with this type of coaching, let's go back in time to 2003-04 season of the Lakers, when it was Kobe and and a bunch of poor players/bad fits, Kobe's first year as the leading man, and the Laker's didn't even make the playoffs. You may not have known this, but the seeds of Kobe and the Laker's triumph over the Spurs in the 2008 Western Conference Finals was already on display for everyone to see. And it was so simple: whether because the Lakers were afraid of Kobe, or whatever, the Lakers PLAYED HARD: got that? The played everyone tough, including the best team in the League at the time, the Spurs. Sure, the Lakers got blown out by 20, but they played like their collective lives depended on it.

This is evident in Larry Brown's great 2004 Piston's team that defensively embarrassed everyone all year long, and overcame tremendous odds to do so against the Lakers in the Finals. Or how about Phil's Laker's beating the Spurs in 2008?

What the heck is going on? This is not the first time this week that someone has talked about the 2003-2004 season and been totally incorrect. What's up with the Lakers NOT making the playoffs in '04???
Jeez how can we take this seriously when Larry Brown's great 2004 Pistons team embarrassed the Lakers even though the Lakers didn't make the playoffs....????

**mytespurs** · 12-06-2009

After reading a few lines of the initial post and the various response, all I have to say is to be careful what you wish for (firing Pop). because you may not be happy with what you ultimately get.

The calling for the head if Pop will turn into why can't we hire a coach like Pop when the winning becomes lean and mediocrity and middle of the pack becomes a fact of life for the Spurs.

**elbamba** · 12-06-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

To show you exactly what's wrong with this type of coaching, let's go back in time to 2003-04 season of the Lakers, when it was Kobe and and a bunch of poor players/bad fits, Kobe's first year as the leading man, and the Laker's didn't even make the playoffs. You may not have known this, but the seeds of Kobe and the Laker's triumph over the Spurs in the 2008 Western Conference Finals was already on display for everyone to see.

You really need to get your facts right. The 2003-04 Lakers beat the Spurs in 6 in the playoffs and went on to the finals. They had Shaq, Malone and Payton. You lose credibility when you mess up the facts in your first paragraph

**duhoh** · 12-06-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

the Spurs FO should Fire Greg Poppovich.

And here's why:

Pop is the ultimate enabler for the Spurs team: he offers more excuses for the Spurs poor play than the Spurs themselves. It's always "poor excution," and "turnovers," and "we just need to play better" and our personal favorite, "get healthy"- in other words, always these seemingly impersonal forces, never what specific players are doing wrong.

To show you exactly what's wrong with this type of coaching, let's go back in time to 2003-04 season of the Lakers, when it was Kobe and and a bunch of poor players/bad fits, Kobe's first year as the leading man, and the Laker's didn't even make the playoffs. You may not have known this, but the seeds of Kobe and the Laker's triumph over the Spurs in the 2008 Western Conference Finals was already on display for everyone to see. And it was so simple: whether because the Lakers were afraid of Kobe, or whatever, the Lakers PLAYED HARD: got that? The played everyone tough, including the best team in the League at the time, the Spurs. Sure, the Lakers got blown out by 20, but they played like their collective lives depended on it.

Which brings me to my next point: when is the last time you've seen the Spurs play like their collective lives depended on it? Almost never. Why? Simple: the Spurs don't want to win as bad as their opponents. Not even during their championship years (with the possible exception of Bruce Bowen) did the Spurs, perhaps other than the Lakers in 2003, truly want to win more than their opponents. And motivation is EXACTLY where coaching comes in.

Look at coaches like Larry Brown and Phil Jackson. One of these coaches, Brown, I respect, Jackson I don't, but both are far away better coaches than Poppovich. Because they these coaches understand that a team cannot rise above it's habits: that you as a team are what you do. So if you lose to elite teams all year round, then you will certainly do so in the playoffs, if you even get there. IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HEALTHY YOUR TEAM IS IF YOU'VE PLAYED TERRIBLE BASKETBALL THE ENTIRE YEAR. This is evident in Larry Brown's great 2004 Piston's team that defensively embarrassed everyone all year long, and overcame tremendous odds to do so against the Lakers in the Finals. Or how about Phil's Laker's beating the Spurs in 2008?

Which brings me to my next question: when has Pop EVER coached the Spurs to a series victory in the playoffs that they had no business winning? (Don't say 2003, the great Act Two of the coming out party of Tim Duncan). When has Pop mis-matched a team to death like Brown in the Finals posting up Corlis Williamson on Kobe Bryant? Once again, never! Pop seems to think that exploiting mismatches is illegal.

I certainly don't endorse the way Phil Jackson does this, but how about publicly berating veteran players who are continually making the same mistakes over and over? Also, when is the last time Pop was thrown out of a game? When was the last time he exploded on a player on the sideline for missing the many effort plays that have been missed just this season for example? Aren't you tired of hearing the same "health" excuses? When was was the last time Pop..cared?

Because that's what it comes down to: it's easy to make fun of Mark Cuban, for example, but no one ever suggests that he doesn't want to the Mavs to win. Can the same be said of Pop, outside of General Principle? No.

The Spurs need to fire Pop, and hire a hard case to light a fire under this proud and talented Spurs team, someone one to come in and do a lot of screaming in public and private, to hold this Spurs team accountable to the already high Spur standard.

you made christians look even more re ed

**Solid D** · 12-06-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

the Spurs FO should Fire Greg Poppovich.

And here's why:

Pop is the ultimate enabler for the Spurs team: he offers more excuses for the Spurs poor play than the Spurs themselves. It's always "poor excution," and "turnovers," and "we just need to play better" and our personal favorite, "get healthy"- in other words, always these seemingly impersonal forces, never what specific players are doing wrong.

Most coaches, or leaders for that matter, do not talk about what their specific team members are doing wrong. They discuss these matters away from the public eyes and ears with their team members. It's the right way to treat people, to their faces, without airing faults in public.

This is an essential element in leadership.

**NZ Spurs** · 12-06-2009

Would any of you tell Duncan or any other player to their face that they didn't play as hard as they could?

No?

Of course not so STFU.

**senorglory** · 12-07-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

...

Sure, the Lakers got blown out by 20, but they played like their collective lives depended on it.

...

IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HEALTHY YOUR TEAM IS IF YOU'VE PLAYED TERRIBLE BASKETBALL THE ENTIRE YEAR.

...

Also, when is the last time Pop was thrown out of a game?

...

When was was the last time Pop..cared?

...

Because that's what it comes down to: it's easy to make fun of Mark Cuban, for example, but no one ever suggests that he doesn't want to the Mavs to win.

...

The Spurs need to fire Pop, and hire a hard case to light a fire under this proud and talented Spurs team, someone one [sic] to come in and do a lot of screaming in public and private, to hold this Spurs team accountable to the already high Spur standard.

A poet's keys to NBA success (see above):
1) Get blown out by 20;
2) Disregard health of aging roster;
3) Have head coach routinely thrown out of games;
4) Send flowers, the occasional hallmark (to show you care);
5) Act like a buffoon/and/or become an easy target for satire/derision;
6) Be sure to yell in public, and in private.

**senorglory** · 12-07-2009

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Pop is the ultimate enabler for the Spurs team: he offers more excuses for the Spurs poor play than the Spurs themselves. It's always "poor excution," and "turnovers," and "we just need to play better" and our personal favorite, "get healthy"- in other words, always these seemingly impersonal forces, never what specific players are doing wrong.

Originally Posted by Solid D

Most coaches, or leaders for that matter, do not talk about what their specific team members are doing wrong. They discuss these matters away from the public eyes and ears with their team members. It's the right way to treat people, to their faces, without airing faults in public.

This is an essential element in leadership.

1) USA Today, 6/12/07: Spurs coach Gregg Popovich spent most of Parker's first three years yelling at him.

"I was 19, so it was a little like father and son," Parker says of Popovich. "He was always hard on me. He always screamed at me and always tried to push me because I'm a little bit nonchalant sometimes in practice and a little bit lazy."

2) Yahoo Sports, 6/17/07.: "You know, Coach Pop was really, really hard on me, always trying to push me and looking for perfection. I thought I was doing pretty good. But it was never enough. I could score 14, 15; it was never enough. Sometimes I felt like it wasn't fair, all the criticism."

In his second year, 2003, he helped the Spurs to a le, but the doubts still lingered. That summer, the Spurs cleared salary-cap space in an effort to sign Nets star Jason Kidd. For Parker, it was a slap. But when Kidd decided to stay in New Jersey, Parker didn't pout. He just rededicated himself.

"(That year) was a tough time for me because I was 21 and we just won a championship and they wanted Jason Kidd," Parker said. "It's hard to accept.

"I told Pop, 'I want to be the point guard. I want to do it and I'm going to work hard to become a great player.' "

"You know," he continued, "it worked out for the best even if it was harder. I was happy to go through that because it made me a better player. With Pop, it was like a father-and-son relationship. And even sometimes, you know, I thought he was crazy, but it made me a great player."

3)

**LOL@MavsFan** · 12-07-2009

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I can honestly say, even if I only read a few lines, that this was probably the stupidest post I've ever read here..and that's saying a lot..

Agreed...I stopped reading after "Why the FO should fire Pop"....another "fan" about to jump off the ledge b/c the Spurs aren't 16-0. There sure are a lot of these people on this msg board.

**SequSpur** · 12-07-2009

Originally Posted by Solid D

Most coaches, or leaders for that matter, do not talk about what their specific team members are doing wrong. They discuss these matters away from the public eyes and ears with their team members. It's the right way to treat people, to their faces, without airing faults in public.

This is an essential element in leadership.

whatever.....

**SequSpur** · 12-07-2009

are bigger than Greg Popovich. Time for his ass to move on. I don't know who should take over, it may take a coach or two to figure it out, but I am done with him.

Good bye Pop! Thanks for your tenure, your dedication and your 4 championships. It wasn't rocket science since you had the best player on the planet and two for awhile....

I always wondered if Tim had a self imposed Timmy tax on everyone in this organization since he joined the Spurs...

He should've... RC and Pop have been gravy training his ass for years....

I want to watch a game and in bleed black and silver again... Tired of the bull excuses..the in foreigners...the red headed white step children...

in tired of it....

Reload, Revolution, Retool.....

Whatever....

Spurs > Popovich.

**DxB** · 12-07-2009

Normally, you;re a ing re . But in this case I kind of agree...a little

**DPG21920** · 12-07-2009

That would be like firing Santa Clause because you were bad and did not get any toys.

**Solid D** · 12-07-2009

Learn how to spell Gregg....

and I ate corn tonight on behalf of the Spurs so I'm expecting a change in their play tonight.

**EricB** · 12-07-2009

Replace him with who exactly..

Still waiting on the answer to this question I asked back in 2003 3 championships prior, that you've YET to answer.

**Solid D** · 12-07-2009

Originally Posted by senorglory

1) USA Today, 6/12/07: Spurs coach Gregg Popovich spent most of Parker's first three years yelling at him.

"I was 19, so it was a little like father and son," Parker says of Popovich. "He was always hard on me. He always screamed at me and always tried to push me because I'm a little bit nonchalant sometimes in practice and a little bit lazy."

...and yet, Pop did no airing-out of Tony's faults to the press.