Hey gay haters. I guess you can toss out the "gay by choice" argument.

[BacktoBasics]

I wasn't being sarcastic, I was saying IMO this article had nothing to do with sexuality but it shouldn't deter anyone from treating gays as equal.

I get what you're trying to say but I think you're confused. It sounds like you're trying to say that this new finding (which isn't really new) blurs the line between male/female and that gay males may be females and vice versa. I don't agree with that. Most gays (liek most straight people) are completely normal anatomically, like heterosexuals. The fact that gays are attracted to their own sex is not because a gay guy secretly is masking a vagina that can be triggered by a gene or anything. You're clumping intersexed individuals and gays together, they're not the same.

The reason this research finding is applicable to intersexed individuals is because often they are born with ambiguous sexual organs, and doctors often choose to turn them into one sex very early (mistake IMO). Usually when they get older, the intersexed individuals develop into a male or female, regardless of what their doctor forced them to be. Perhaps now we will identify a group of genes which can tell a parent early whether their intersexed child will be a male or female, rather than guessing.

I'm not confused. It doesn't blur the line of male/female it helps to understand it. It only blurs the line of what is considered to be sexual. Especially if this gene can manipulate who and what we are without fully altering the genitals. The point is that there are other genetic factors that determine our sex which directly affect our disposition for preference or lack thereof. I'm hard pressed to think that something that can literally change your sex wouldn't affect behavior patterns or preference as well. Your genetic makeup does define who we are and it can define the types of choices we are inclined to make. Are we not closer to being one sex than two distinct sexes? If each of us has the ability to have our sex altered by simply flipping a switch are we not that much closer to genetics defining sexuality instead of it being boiled down to choice.

[BacktoBasics]

And personally, it doesn't matter to me whether we prove a 'gay' gene or whether it's a choice. It really shouldn't have an affect on how you treat the individual and their rights. I'm always puzzled whenever a debate about gay rights is reduced whether they are born gay on not. Who says you can deny anyone a right because they made a personal choice?

I don't know but check with our government and the thumpers because they've clearly found a way to justify it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

[BacktoBasics]

I'm just curious about the type of data required to justify the above claim... It seems from the article that the researchers were the ones "turning" the genes on or off, and that the mice simply reacted accordingly... How does that experiment (forced genetic intervention) prove that the body is in a "constant tussle" to behave likewise without that external stimulus?

Seems to me like they found another gene outside of our "XY", "XX" chromosomes that factors into our genders... nothing more, nothing less...

This is a reach in terms of relating it with sexuality unless:

Researchers mapped the genomes of a pool of over 500 openly sexual males and another 500 openly sexual females (minimum from several races). And compared them against a corresponding number of 'straight' genomes. They would then need to substantiate whether or not the FOXL2 gene was "on" more often on the sexual gene pool (by at least 2.5 standard deviations).
That's harder science.

You were supposed to show up on page 1.

[BacktoBasics]

oh wait you did. Excellent.

[resistanze]

I'm just curious about the type of data required to justify the above claim... It seems from the article that the researchers were the ones "turning" the genes on or off, and that the mice simply reacted accordingly... How does that experiment (forced genetic intervention) prove that the body is in a "constant tussle" to behave likewise without that external stimulus?

I don't think the article used the words "constant tussle." What they did say is that the expression of sex-determining genes in maintained throughout life and changes even in the middle of life can induce testes production. Their main point was that our sexual fate isn't solely determined at the beginning of life, and can be altered thereafter.

[resistanze]

I don't know but check with our government and the thumpers because they've clearly found a way to justify it.

Yeah, and I agree those people are frickin' morons.

[mrsmaalox]

I don't know B2B, although I don't believe that sexuality is a choice, I also don't believe that one's sexual attractions are genetic. Being so would have to lead us to the general conclusion that all deviations from the so called "norm" of sexual attraction (children, animals) are also genetically based. And while I believe in those cases there may be a genetic quirk somewhere, I don't think it is in the sex determination area.

[admiralsnackbar]

I think you're ignoring the fact that having your sex defined does affect your biological predisposition to which sex you're attracted to.

For the record, I didn't mean to sound condescending -- sorry if you took it that way

[resistanze]

Especially if this gene can manipulate who and what we are without fully altering the genitals.

Are you offering a possible explanation? Because this gene cannot do this. It does quite the opposite, as it can affect the production of genitals without manipulating "who we are."

Are we not closer to being one sex than two distinct sexes? If each of us has the ability to have our sex altered by simply flipping a switch are we not that much closer to genetics defining sexuality instead of it being boiled down to choice.

I get what you're saying, but the idea that our sex is determined by a "switch" so to speak has been known for decades. This finding is not novel. I mean, the development of human beings are largely dictated by certain genes flipping on and off in a timely matter. The presence of male and female genitals does not necessarily determine (relatively little, actually) one's sexual orientation. Such is the reason as I explained earlier, intersexed individuals often raised as girls end up liking girls (and vice versa).

So no, I don't think this puts us any closer to a genetic reason for sexuality, for reasons already stated in this thread.

[I. Hustle]

I have the gene that makes me like chicks with big boobs.

[marini martini]

I have the gene that makes me like chicks with big boobs.

I thought you had the gene that makes your wife turn butch.

[CosmicCowboy]

I thought you had the gene that makes your wife turn butch.

[BacktoBasics]

That was a good burn.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Researchers have found that the body is in a constant fight to remain either female or male and the suppression of just one gene could cause it to "flip" from one to the other.

That happens all the time...

[Trainwreck2100]

Yeah this has nothing to do with sexuality as it deals with transgendered people, who are different than s

[mrsmaalox]

That was a good burn.

Yes I can still smell the burning flesh.

[I. Hustle]

That was good. I have that gene too I guess.

[Phenomanul]

You were supposed to show up on page 1.

Typical...

I outline the type of study that would be required to corroborrate your insistent connection of FOXL2 with sexuality and you don't even see it...

Seems like the alleged "hate" is all you can cling to in light of my reply.

Carry on.

[I. Hustle]

The reason I hate gays
by I. Hustle


There are many reasons I hate gays. I guess the first reason I hate them is because I was tricked by one. She duped me into marriage and paying for her school and helping her get the carreer that she wanted. I never saw the lesbobutchcarpetmunching side of her until it was too late. She acted like a magician and made my pener disappear into her mouth or cooter on a consistant basis leading me to believe she loved man meat. Boy was I a moron.
Another reason I can't stand the gays is because of the gay coworkers that I have worked with so far. EVERY one of them turned every stupid thing that happened at work into drama. Like the world is against them even though we work for one of the most friendly companies. Because of one of these idiots we weren't able to decorate for Christmas because of what it represents BBBUUUUTTTTT we can go all out on Halloween so that he can dress up like a woman.

Another reason is because of a guy who wouldn't leave me alone no matter how many times I told him I was straight. He thought that just because I was finishing up with a divorce that I was a woman hater. The dude was so freaking gross. A friend of mine asked him how old he was and when he told him my friend was shocked and said "Wow, you look a lot younger than that" to which he looked at me and replied "I swallow". I got up and left.

Those are my experiences with gays and B2B can't tell me different because he thinks all Mexicans mow lawns for a living.

[BacktoBasics]

Typical...

I outline the type of study that would be required to corroborrate your insistent connection of FOXL2 with sexuality and you don't even see it...

Seems like the alleged "hate" is all you can cling to in light of my reply.

Carry on.

I saw what you did.

[BacktoBasics]

Those are my experiences with gays and B2B can't tell me different because he thinks all Mexicans mow lawns for a living.

I guess your ex was a mexican because she can mow a good lawn too.

[I. Hustle]

I guess your ex was a mexican because she can mow a good lawn too.

Probably. If I would have had the opportunity to be involved at least once maybe I wouldn't hate her so much. I would be like eh she was a carpet muncher but at least she let me bang her and her friend.

[JamStone]

I find this thread just an excuse to post this again.

[chode_regulator]

Two things

even eventually non-surgical sex changes

Wow!!

and the second

I stopped reading when the dude said betted.