I'm speechless R. Jefferson 1-8, 2 pts 2 reb 1 BLK.

[siraulo23]

RJ should get Finley's shots from last season at least

right now, all he does is stand around wait for someone to pass him the ball, either shoot a three, fake a three then drive to the lane if its open, or shoot a mid range j

[DesignatedT]

The problem isn't RJ's scoring. I came into the season expecting him to be a 13-15ppg scorer at best. The problem is he isn't being aggressive and he does nothing else for the team when his shot isn't falling. Play SOME defense, show SOME effort, actually fight for a ing rebound. Do ANYTHING else. RJ has been a huge disappointment this year. And I consider myself to be a fairly rational fan.

Exactly, Its not about the scoring. he shows no effort. does nothing else. he is a spot up shooter that plays no defense (and if we were looking for that, we have a better version, sitting on the bench in roger mason jr)

A big thing that surprised me with jefferson and im sure surprised everyone was i was under the impression that he is able to get into the lane. I figured he could get to the FT line at least 8-10 times a game, which would help this team out WAY MORE than people think. but again he obviously cant create his own shot at all.

[neboat]

RJ should get Finley's shots from last season at least

right now, all he does is stand around wait for someone to pass him the ball, either shoot a three, fake a three then drive to the lane if its open, or shoot a mid range j

And unfortunately for RJ, he's not good at shooting the 3 or the mid range j...

[z0sa]

The problem isn't RJ's scoring.

thread le.

[DesignatedT]

thread le.

The problem is RJ's defense or lack there of, his lack of energy, his lack of confidence, his lack of effort(which is really sad) and his lack of ability to create his own shot( which results in us paying 17 mil/yr for nothing but a lame old role player)

jefferson looks older and slower than duncan and manu out there.... thats the problem.

[Bruno]

Ginobili deserves nearly as much blame as Jefferson for what he is doing this year.

Anyway, that's the way ST is. Manu is perfect and it's never his fault.

[timvp]

Ginobili deserves nearly as much blame as Jefferson for what he is doing this year.

Anyway, that's the way ST is. Manu is perfect and it's never his fault.

Manu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ this season. It's not even close. Add in Manu being paid much less and the vocal minority of Spurs fans who want him to be traded and I'd say Manu is getting close to a fair shake by Spurs Nation.

Manu's game has no doubt been in decline but he's finding ways to still be effective most nights ... namely by passing better than ever. Comparing him to RJ AKA Finley-with-a-worse-jumper is not fair.

Comparing the players to what was expected going into the season, I'd say the order goes RJ ---> TP ---> Manu ---> Duncan.

[z0sa]

The problem is RJ's defense or lack there of, his lack of energy, his lack of confidence, his lack of effort(which is really sad) and his lack of ability to create his own shot( which results in us paying 17 mil/yr for nothing but a lame old role player)

jefferson looks older and slower than duncan and manu out there.... thats the problem.

I agree on some counts, but I was responding to the fact he shot 1-8 and tends to disappear in big games (rather, games we need him). He's not going to be a consistent big time scorer unless TP stops being the center of the offense and he hasn't earned his teammates' trust period anyway.

[Bruno]

Manu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ this season. It's not even close. Add in Manu being paid much less and the vocal minority of Spurs fans who want him to be traded and I'd say Manu is getting close to a fair shake by Spurs Nation.

Manu's game has no doubt been in decline but he's finding ways to still be effective most nights ... namely by passing better than ever. Comparing him to RJ AKA Finley-with-a-worse-jumper is not fair.

Comparing the players to what was expected going into the season, I'd say the order goes RJ ---> TP ---> Manu ---> Duncan.

That's just wrong.

Like it or not but Ginobili has been a huge disappointment this year and nearly as big as RJ.
He has been injured a lot these past years and the hope coming into this season was that he would nearly be back at his previous level.

After an half season, he isn't anywhere close to that level. i don't even see how it can be even debatable.

[DesignatedT]

I agree on some counts, but I was responding to the fact he shot 1-8 and tends to disappear in big games (rather, games we need him). He's not going to be a consistent big time scorer unless TP stops being the center of the offense and he hasn't earned his teammates' trust period anyway.

word. TP isnt a pass first gaurd, We have always known this. I was just unaware of the inability of jefferson to create his own shot. he really needs to be set up to make anything happen.

What i just cant understand is that

Jefferson, Dice, Blair are all better and an improvement over Udoka, KT and Oberto and yet were playing worse than we were. Obviously its the Defense that took a hit, but still we have so much more talent and we still cant win games and to me you can only put the blame on the coaching staff for that reason.

I am just upset at Jefferson because i know our FO was expecting more than what hes giving, and right now hes the most expensive "role player" to ever walk the planet, when we get the exact same production and even more sometimes from Roger Mason who is worth 5x less.

[timaios]

Ok, so... when our real SF, Michael Finley, is coming back ?

I mean, seriously, i miss him right now !

[ElNono]

Like it or not but Ginobili has been a huge disappointment this year and nearly as big as RJ.

No way. Not even close. Unless you had some surreal expectations, I guess.
I mean, losing his athleticism was expected, but nobody expected him to make up for it by being the de-facto reserve PG on the team. He hasn't shot well, but he commanded what was the best bench on the NBA by a mile this season.

RJ was supposed to be the athletic guy, and a 20 ppg scorer... furthermore, he was trumpeted by the coach as a potential defensive stopper... to say none of that happened is an understatement...

[DesignatedT]

That's just wrong.

Like it or not but Ginobili has been a huge disappointment this year and nearly as big as RJ.
He has been injured a lot these past years and the hope coming into this season was that he would nearly be back at his previous level.

After an half season, he isn't anywhere close to that level. i don't even see how it can be even debatable.

I agree that Ginobili isnt playing as well as we need him, there is no doubt about that.

That being said, The FO much anticipated a drop in production from TP,MG, and TD, and that is why they brought in RJ making 17 mil.

They would not have brought in Jefferson for that kind of money unless they thought he would be able to contribute on both ends of the floor and some nights even pick up the slack or lead the team in scoring and production. He has been by far the biggest disappointment.

[Bruno]

No way. Not even close. Unless you had some surreal expectations, I guess.

All star or near all star level for Ginobili was a surreal expectation?

[timvp]

That's just wrong.

Like it or not but Ginobili has been a huge disappointment this year and nearly as big as RJ.
He has been injured a lot these past years and the hope coming into this season was that he would nearly be back at his previous level.

After an half season, he isn't anywhere close to that level. i don't even see how it can be even debatable.

Guess we'll have to disagree. Manu's shooting is off but he's getting a lot more assists and is turning it over less. He's obviously not in his prime anymore but to compare his season to RJ isn't fair, IMO.

Personally, RJ figuring things out, the defense becoming elite and TP being able to find his second wind are bigger concerns than Manu's level of play. I mean, RJ is a below average player this year, TP went from having a PER higher than Manu last year to being way behind Manu this season and the defense just got exposed for the umpteenth time.

[ElNono]

All star or near all star level for Ginobili was a surreal expectation?

To me, it is. Much like expecting Duncan to have an all-defensive level...

He was a borderline All-Star in 2008 when he led the team in scoring...
Manu is the spark from the bench and an intangibles guy. RJ was supposed to be the athletic guy this year...

[timvp]

All star or near all star level for Ginobili was a surreal expectation?

Yes. With RJ and McDyess being added to the mix, there's no way Ginobili was going to have the touches to be at an All-Star level.

[Obstructed_View]

All star or near all star level for Ginobili was a surreal expectation?

Compared to the expectations for Parker going into this year? Yeah. Parker's been a far bigger disappointment than Manu, and possibly a bigger disappointment than Jefferson this year.

[redzero]

The Spurs need a real point guard to set their wing players up.

[ElNono]

Compared to the expectations for Parker going into this year? Yeah. Parker's been a far bigger disappointment than Manu, and possibly a bigger disappointment than Jefferson this year.

I agree. I think the FO knew that Duncan needed help, and they brought Dice, and Manu was not going to be a high flyer and they brought in RJ... I don't think they expected Tony needing a backup...

[DesignatedT]

IMO spurs need to just pony up get a true shot blocker and center like camby or haywood and go back to what has won them 4 championships, it cant get any worse than this. and i think tony manu rj duncan camby/haywood lineup with hill dice and blair off the bench can both excel offensively and defensively.

mason at the 4 is not going to improve the defense. it never will

[Bruno]

To me, it is. Much like expecting Duncan to have an all-defensive level...

He was a borderline All-Star in 2008 when he led the team in scoring...
Manu is the spark from the bench and an intangibles guy. RJ was supposed to be the athletic guy this year...

So I guess all the "big 3" talk is now BS if Manu is now just a player that will give you some good minutes against second units. I didn't get the memo that Manu went from future HOF to rich man Flip Murray...

[ElNono]

IMO spurs need to just pony up get a true shot blocker and center

You know, if we just want to try it, we have that Ratliff guy that we're supposedly saving for the playoffs (LOL) and averages no less than a block a game, and that other tall Frenchie who is a fouling machine but seems to be fairly decent protecting the rim. Maybe we could give them a little burn in the second or third quarter and see what happens... can't be worse than RJ or Manu at PF...

[DesignatedT]

You know, if we just want to try it, we have that Ratliff guy that we're supposedly saving for the playoffs (LOL) and averages no less than a block a game, and that other tall Frenchie who is a fouling machine but seems to be fairly decent protecting the rim. Maybe we could give them a little burn in the second or third quarter and see what happens... can't be worse than RJ or Manu at PF...

Lol. It should be interesting what the FO does. They have always made a move when we needed one so we will definitely be doing something imo. Should be pretty exciting 2nd half of the season, even if we go down in the gutter. im looking forward to seeing what happens. i refuse to believe that we just go into the gutter. no way duncan parker and manu let it happen.

[ElNono]

So I guess all the "big 3" talk is now BS if Manu is now just a player that will give you some good minutes against second units. I didn't get the memo that Manu went from future HOF to rich man Flip Murray...

Flip Murray can't command a bench and make everyone play... he's merely a chucker... but you knew that already...

Fact is, we score more than ever. We just can't stop anybody, and you can't pin that squarely on Ginobili...