Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect

[Oh, Gee!!]

athiests are funny in that way.

total hypocrisy.

in what way? that some are pushy jerks? or, that some commit arson?

[Bartleby]

I strongly doubt these two clowns are atheists.

To me they look like insecure twits who want to see themselves as rebels. And, crazy as it may sound, I think they wanted to get caught. The books were little more than props. Books on atheism and demons served to reinforce their pathetic desire to perceive themselves as bad boys and get people riled up (mission accomplished) since, to many evangelical Christians, an atheist is just as bad as a satanist, if not worse.

Anybody who really wants to get inside their heads should look at their Internet browsing history.

[The Reckoning]

in what way? that some are pushy jerks? or, that some commit arson?

pushy jerks. most atheists arent REALLY atheists. they do it to draw attention to themselves and form atheist-appreciation groups that prey on church-goers. atheist student groups are the worst.

just the other day i had an atheist come up to me and tell me i had some crap on my forehead and handed me a tissue. it was ash wednesday. i told her that her makeup only had God-knows-what in it, and probably a little ash too.

[LnGrrrR]

Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect

• Buzz up!

AP – In this photo provided by the Smith County Sheriff Department, Jason Robert Bourque, 19, of Lindale, …

• Slideshow:Texas Church Fires

By DANNY ROBBINS, Associated Press Writer Danny Robbins, Associated Press Writer – Wed Feb 24, 5:29 pm ET
DALLAS – Investigators have seized books on demons and atheism as well as rifles and knives from in a home linked to one of the men charged with setting an east Texas church on fire and suspected in a string of similar blazes.
Jason Robert Bourque, 19, and Daniel George McAllister, 21, were arrested Sunday and charged with a single count of felony arson in the torching of the Dover Baptist Church near Tyler about 90 miles east of Dallas.
Court do ents link the suspects to the Feb. 8 Dover Baptist fire and another the same day at the Clear Spring Missionary Baptist Church in nearby Lindale. The churches are among 11 that have burned in Texas this year in suspected arson attacks.
Investigators searching a home Sunday in rural Grand Saline where Bourque's girlfriend and family live discovered paperback books led "Demon Possession" and "The Atheist's Way," according to an affidavit filed Tuesday by Texas Ranger Sgt. Brent Davis. Also found were four rifles, three knives and a GPS device at the double-wide manufactured home, the affidavit said.
Bourque also left graffiti in a bathroom stall at a farm and ranch supply store in Tyler that links him to another one of the fires, the affidavit said. Bourque was under surveillance on Feb. 13 when he and his father went into the store, and security video footage shows him entering the men's bathroom, according to the affidavit.
A day later, investigators discovered a carving on a bathroom stall of an upside down cross with flames and the words "Little Hope was arson," the affidavit said.
The Little Hope Baptist Church in Canton burned on Jan. 1, but the cause of the fire hadn't been stated publicly at the time of the surveillance, according to the affidavit.
As a result, the cause "would not have been known to anyone else other than the fire setter," the affidavit said.
Investigators determined that the carving wasn't present when the bathroom was cleaned on Feb. 12, according to the affidavit.
Bourque and McAllister, described as childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler, have been ordered jailed in lieu of $10 million bond and could face life in prison if convicted. Citing a gag order, attorneys for the two men declined comment Wednesday.
Affidavits filed in the case also show that investigators obtained DNA samples from both suspects.
Investigators have matched DNA extracted from a brick found at the scene of one fire and a rock from another and want to see if it can be linked to either suspect, according to the do ents.
___

First... F*** you.

Second... no, you know what, the first one pretty much covers it for anyone with a brain.

[LnGrrrR]

pushy jerks. most atheists arent REALLY atheists. they do it to draw attention to themselves and form atheist-appreciation groups that prey on church-goers. atheist student groups are the worst.

just the other day i had an atheist come up to me and tell me i had some crap on my forehead and handed me a tissue. it was ash wednesday. i told her that her makeup only had God-knows-what in it, and probably a little ash too.

I would agree that I've met a few atheists that seemed more pissed off at God than "atheist", as it were.

And yes, the person who did that to you was certainly a biotch Reckoning.

[Drachen]

What sort of atheist believes in demons?

This is what I was thinking, aren't those two books mutually exclusive?

[LnGrrrR]

This is what I was thinking, aren't those two books mutually exclusive?

Eh, not if you're a dumbass atheist

[Drachen]

Or he was a Christian who was unfulfilled and decided to research what else was out there for him to believe in. So he bought a book on demons to see if he wanted to serve the dark one, and he bought a book on atheism so that he could see if he wanted to believe in nothing. Then, when he got home and opened them up, he remembered that they were books and he was going to have to read them, so he just said it, called his friends and told him they were leaving right away and that the friend should bring his "burnin matches."

[LnGrrrR]

Or he was a Christian who was unfulfilled and decided to research what else was out there for him to believe in. So he bought a book on demons to see if he wanted to serve the dark one, and he bought a book on atheism so that he could see if he wanted to believe in nothing. Then, when he got home and opened them up, he remembered that they were books and he was going to have to read them, so he just said it, called his friends and told him they were leaving right away and that the friend should bring his "burnin matches."

[EVAY]

If these guys were Baptists at some point and later became atheists ( which is not a fact but is an assumption by some herein), wouldn't that make them technically agnostics, as opposed to atheists?

Personally, I agree with whomever said that they are just pathetic individuals looking for some pathetic attention.

[EVAY]

just people digging for whats not there.

completely unrelated, i think churches should be taxed, agree or disagree?

I don't honestly think that churches should be taxed by the state or federal governments. I'm quite happy with keeping all of that business separate. My thing is that I would prefer that there be MORE separation than there is now. I get extremely nervous about the religious right and how they want to put their religion into public schools, etc. I'm happy that they are happy in their religious faith, and I don't want to get involved in what they do or don't believe in. I just don't care. But I DO care about not having that religion in my public schools. If they want their kids to have religious instruction, fine. Send their kids to religious schools. But not using my tax money, and so not with 'vouchers' or anything like that.

I've even heard some of the religious right claim that if their children attend a church school or are 'home schooled' that they should be exempt from paying school taxes. I am well past having children in any school, but I don't mind paying school taxes, because I want my country to have a well-educated citizenry. The notion that you should not pay tax if you are partaking of the public school system is a lopsided view of citizenship, IMHO.

[Drachen]

I don't honestly think that churches should be taxed by the state or federal governments. I'm quite happy with keeping all of that business separate. My thing is that I would prefer that there be MORE separation than there is now. I get extremely nervous about the religious right and how they want to put their religion into public schools, etc. I'm happy that they are happy in their religious faith, and I don't want to get involved in what they do or don't believe in. I just don't care. But I DO care about not having that religion in my public schools. If they want their kids to have religious instruction, fine. Send their kids to religious schools. But not using my tax money, and so not with 'vouchers' or anything like that.

I've even heard some of the religious right claim that if their children attend a church school or are 'home schooled' that they should be exempt from paying school taxes. I am well past having children in any school, but I don't mind paying school taxes, because I want my country to have a well-educated citizenry. The notion that you should not pay tax if you are partaking of the public school system is a lopsided view of citizenship, IMHO.

I disagree with the voucher thing, but I don't think it has to be a federal thing. I think that the tax dollars I pay (for schooling), I should be able to use for my child's schooling, wherever that may be.

[EVAY]

I disagree with the voucher thing, but I don't think it has to be a federal thing. I think that the tax dollars I pay (for schooling), I should be able to use for my child's schooling, wherever that may be.

The we disagree. And I hope, respectfully so.

To me, your responsibility as an American citizen is to pay into the hopper as anyone else does for the public education of the young of the country. You are lucky enough to live in a country that allows you to send your children to a school other than those provided by the government, whether that school be religious or private secular. The privelege of citizenship, however, does not, in my mind, exempt you from your civic duty to help pay for the public education of those who do not make the same choice you do.

[Drachen]

The we disagree. And I hope, respectfully so.

To me, your responsibility as an American citizen is to pay into the hopper as anyone else does for the public education of the young of the country. You are lucky enough to live in a country that allows you to send your children to a school other than those provided by the government, whether that school be religious or private secular. The privelege of citizenship, however, does not, in my mind, exempt you from your civic duty to help pay for the public education of those who do not make the same choice you do.

Of course respectfully so.

I am all for continuing to pay for the education of the citizenry when my kids are out of school, but I also think that I shouldn't have to pay twice for MY kids' schooling especially since I am actually saving the public school system money by NOT sending my kid there.

[EVAY]

Of course respectfully so.

I am all for continuing to pay for the education of the citizenry when my kids are out of school, but I also think that I shouldn't have to pay twice for MY kids' schooling especially since I am actually saving the public school system money by NOT sending my kid there.

But it is your CHOICE to pay for your children to attend a non-public school.
Your obligation to the rest of the citizenry does not go away because you have exercised your choice. The public education system cost does not go up or down on a one-student-by-one-student basis. Therefore, the cost of maintaining the system will still exist whether your child is part of it or not. Therefore, the cost of maintaining it is still a part of the shared cost of citizenship.

You remain a citizen of the country, with all its attendant responsiblities, regardless of whether or not you partake in all of its offerings.

[Drachen]

But it is your CHOICE to pay for your children to attend a non-public school.
Your obligation to the rest of the citizenry does not go away because you have exercised your choice. The public education system cost does not go up or down on a one-student-by-one-student basis. Therefore, the cost of maintaining the system will still exist whether your child is part of it or not. Therefore, the cost of maintaining it is still a part of the shared cost of citizenship.

You remain a citizen of the country, with all its attendant responsiblities, regardless of whether or not you partake in all of its offerings.

If you don't think school districts' costs would go up if people didn't make that choice, then just do a quick search of how many private schools there are and get a close approximation of how many new schools would have to be built to house all of those students that the currently don't have to house. Additionally you say that it is my choice to not send my children to public schools so I should deal with the penalty. Yet you are not seeing that those who don't are being rewarded by not sending their children to private schools. It goes both ways when the playing field isnt level. Look, I am willing to compromise too. Take half the money that I send to the school district that I am not using and give it to me for my children's schooling. The remaining half can be used for the educating the rest of the citizenry. Shoot, at the very least make my contribution to my child's education tax deductible.

[EVAY]

If you don't think school districts' costs would go up if people didn't make that choice, then just do a quick search of how many private schools there are and get a close approximation of how many new schools would have to be built to house all of those students that the currently don't have to house. Additionally you say that it is my choice to not send my children to public schools so I should deal with the penalty. Yet you are not seeing that those who don't are being rewarded by not sending their children to private schools. It goes both ways when the playing field isnt level. Look, I am willing to compromise too. Take half the money that I send to the school district that I am not using and give it to me for my children's schooling. The remaining half can be used for the educating the rest of the citizenry. Shoot, at the very least make my contribution to my child's education tax deductible.

Now the last part I could agree with. I think it is completely reasonable to have private or parochial education costs tax deductible. That's a very good compromise, I think. Thanks for thinking of it.

And thanks for a good discussion.

[Winehole23]

athiests are funny in that way. kind of like anarchists "uniting" under the anarchy "symbol."

total hypocrisy.

I see it more as involuntary resemblance. Influence, if you like.

If your main thesis is *not X*, your main theme belongs provincially to X and may end up resembling X. Pace Paul de Man (and all the kneejerk haters out there), resistance to theory often ends up suc bing to what it consciously resists.

E`en hath its peculiar laws, I see! I`m glad of that! a pact may then be made, The which you gentlemen will surely keep?

[Winehole23]

Lagniappe.

[Drachen]

No problem EVAY. That last sentence about tax deductible should be the very least. It at least brings that field level.

[EVAY]

Lagniappe.

You know that you are one weird dude, don't you, WH?
Truth is, I've always enjoyed Goethe.

And, I'm a firm believer in lagniappe!

[Winehole23]

You know that you are one weird dude, don't you, WH?

I'm pretty sure it's still allowed. Thanks, I guess.

Truth is, I've always enjoyed Goethe.

Me too. Hence the lagniappe. It couldn't hurt.

[EVAY]

I'm pretty sure it's still allowed. Thanks, I guess.

Me too. Hence the lagniappe. It couldn't hurt.

Oh, you're right. It was a compliment. It is nice occasionally to be reminded by someone like you that far greater minds than those on this board have contemplated issues far beyond what we contemplate, and have done so with ever so much greater class. Thanks for pulling us out of the mundane from time to time.

[LnGrrrR]

If these guys were Baptists at some point and later became atheists ( which is not a fact but is an assumption by some herein), wouldn't that make them technically agnostics, as opposed to atheists?

Personally, I agree with whomever said that they are just pathetic individuals looking for some pathetic attention.

Standard clarification:

Atheism - lack of belief
Agnosticism - lack of knowledge

You can be an agnostic atheist, like myself. (Not sure about God's existence, don't believe.) Or a gnostic theist. (Know God exists, believe God exists.) Or any other combo.

[EVAY]

Standard clarification:

Atheism - lack of belief
Agnosticism - lack of knowledge

You can be an agnostic atheist, like myself. (Not sure about God's existence, don't believe.) Or a gnostic theist. (Know God exists, believe God exists.) Or any other combo.

Thanks for the clarification on atheism ve. agnostics. I always thought that agnostics were former theists.

I have also always had a certain fascination with gnosticism. I know it was denounced as heresy...I just thought htey had a point about some things.