Gentry: Kobe Is Best Closer Ever

[Grundle]

lol at the Suns playing defense.

[Rummpd]

Just in the last few years Wade, Ben Gordon (had an amazing run), and Gilbert Arenas have had comparable seasons of having amazing gamewinning performances. Kobe is fabulous and Gentry en led to his opinion but Manu has also had web sites calling him the most clutch player in the NBA including www.nba.com itself
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...chuhmann/11/05
/clutch.numbersgame/index.html


"Not only is Ginobili the new Batman, he's also Mr. Clutch. His shooting percentage isn't that great, but he's at the top of the list because he gets to the line often and makes his free throws when he does."

KOBE DID NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOP TEN OF THIS LIST! 38TH!!!!

[Allanon]

"Not only is Ginobili the new Batman, he's also Mr. Clutch. His shooting percentage isn't that great, but he's at the top of the list because he gets to the line often and makes his free throws when he does."
KOBE DID NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOP TEN OF THIS LIST! 38TH!!!!

Manu's a very clutch player; that is true.

But if Kobe is #38 on the list of active clutch players, there's obviously something very wrong with the analysis.

37 players more clutch than Kobe?

It's similar to a Hollinger analysis that puts the Jazz as the best team in the NBA based on the numbers.

[JamStone]

I think part of the perception and amazement about Kobe is the degree of difficulty some of the clutch shots he takes have. Kobe will be defended by two or three guys or blanketed with perfect man defense or fading away at the three point line or further or going out of bounds on the baseline with no angle... and make the shot. Two of his shots this season, the bank on Wade and Miami and the game winner against Ray Allen and Boston probably couldn't have been defended much better than they were and were basically impossible shots. I think that adds to the perception. If you look at other "clutch" guys and their shot attempts, I'd guess most of their makes come nowhere close to the degree of difficulty. Look at Carmelo. I'd bet most of his game winners that one season were in either a catch and shoot situation or a one on one iso and was given just enough room to square up and get a decent look.

That's what makes Kobe special in those situations. Now his critics will say he's forcingbad shots when his teammates are open. That has some validity. But it's also what makes Kobe Kobe. Kobe's probably not the most clutch player ever, but part of his legend is about how crazy some of those shots he's made really were.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah, he did a great job closing the series out.

And Jordan didn't always take the last shot.

Jordan passed to his teammates if they were wide open on the last shot. Kobe would rather shoot over double and triple teams.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

leave it to Manufan to gay up a thread trying to put Manu in the same conversation as Jordan and Kobe.

[djohn2oo8]

leave it to Manufan to gay up a thread trying to put Manu in the same conversation as Jordan and Kobe.

[Kriz-Maxima]

You had to go there.

[lefty]

You had to go there.

Sorry

[Killakobe81]

He had an OPINION ...he maybe wrong. But a case can be made ...
Oh yeah watch the Game 4 of the NBA finals in 2000
Kobe was very clutch

[MiamiHeat]

leave it to Manufan to gay up a thread trying to put Manu in the same conversation as Jordan and Kobe.

you're not much better

you make fun of manu, but you put kobe in the same sentence as jordan as if talking about kobe and jordan together is OK, but manu is sooo ridiculous

[XFactor]

[youtube]Me9poUsFjI8[/youotube]

[TheGreatest23]

Get off Jordans nuts, he's not even the best player to wear 23. Watered down league ftw.

[TD 21]

He's having a great clutch season this year, no denying that..

And what it's doing is perpetuating the myth that he was all-time great in the clutch previous to this season.

Admittedly, stats aside, there is no current player that gives me the feeling that he's going to make a win-or-lose shot more than Bryant. I remember the game against the Raptors just over a month ago, where he shot a fade away 30-something footer over an outstretched arm for the win and despite the degree of difficulty, as I saw it unfolding I assumed he was going to make it. He almost did.

Last shot, I'd probably go with Bryant, but last five or so minutes of a big game or playoff game, I'd take Ginobili over any player in the league. He's the one I'd want with the ball in his hands because he's completely unselfish, will almost always make the right play, is an excellent passer/ball handler, left-handed (always an advantage), unafraid and actually inviting of the moment, a good tough shot maker and he's probably the most spontaneous, unique player in the league.

[mavsfan1000]

Get off Jordans nuts, he's not even the best player to wear 23. Watered down league ftw.

lol Cavs with 0 rings. I think GOAT needs to win tons of championships. Cavs choking against Magic does not support Lebron's cause for possible GOAT.

[ChrisRichards]

Maybe its just me and 82games.com, but stats proves Lebron is still much more clutch than Kobe. He scored more points, had more rebounds, blocks and assist. Oh and Lebron also shot a better percentage.



But what do I know, im just a hater with proof.


http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

[ChrisRichards]

lol Cavs with 0 rings. I think GOAT needs to win tons of championships. Cavs choking against Magic does not support Lebron's cause for possible GOAT.

City of Cleveland will get their NBA Finals championship banner this year. Mavs have to wait for another decade. No disrespect. Just the truth.

[MiamiHeat]

Maybe its just me and 82games.com, but stats proves Lebron is still much more clutch than Kobe. He scored more points, had more rebounds, blocks and assist. Oh and Lebron also shot a better percentage.



But what do I know, im just a hater with proof.


http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

They don't want to hear proof

Them laker fans have short memories. They remember when Kobe makes them, but forget the other 71% of the times he misses them

Kobe's FG% in clutch situations is right above league average. A bunch of guys with a lot of attempts shoot better than he does, inlcuding Wade, LeBron, Melo, Ray Allen, etc.


also, laker fans should learn

being clutch is not about hitting a tough shot.

it's about knowing how to make your shot EASIER, so that you can make more of them. this is called basketball IQ, working hard to get open without the ball, playing the give N go, finding the best spots for a high percentage shot attempt

where as Kobe?

what the does kobe do every time? he plays iso and dribbles and stares down his defender and then tries some crazy ass shot. that's low bball IQ. more of a drama actor for the cameras than a basketball player. he's not alone though, his generation of guys grew up glamorizing the NBA stars, including mainly MJ, so guys like Kobe, Iverson, etc grew up playing basketball in ISO situations instead of team ball and fundamentals

[ChrisRichards]

They don't want to hear proof

Them laker fans have short memories. They remember when Kobe makes them, but forget the other 71% of the times he misses them

Kobe's FG% in clutch situations is right above league average. A bunch of guys with a lot of attempts shoot better than he does, inlcuding Wade, LeBron, Melo, Ray Allen, etc.


also, laker fans should learn

being clutch is not about hitting a tough shot.

it's about knowing how to make your shot EASIER, so that you can make more of them. this is called basketball IQ, working hard to get open without the ball, playing the give N go, finding the best spots for a high percentage shot attempt

where as Kobe?

what the does kobe do every time? he plays iso and dribbles and stares down his defender and then tries some crazy ass shot. that's low bball IQ. more of a drama actor for the cameras than a basketball player. he's not alone though, his generation of guys grew up glamorizing the NBA stars, including mainly MJ, so guys like Kobe, Iverson, etc grew up playing basketball in ISO situations instead of team ball and fundamentals

+1


Also, I just want to say that I dont think "real" Laker fans are the problem. Its those rabid 14 y/o Kobe homer/fanatics that ruins it for their fanbase. They will throw logic out of the window to prove their stupidity eventhough its plain and simple. Like how the does 38%>47%? Or why is regular season stats are more important than playoff stats?



In this case, how the does having a career 29% FG in clutch situations translates to the greatest ever? We suppose to just forget guys like Jordan, Bird, Jerry West, and even to a degree Reggie Miller and John Stockton? Kobe is not in those guys level. Right now Kobe is in Ray Allen's level when it comes to clutch situations and its not a slight on Kobe considering Allen is lethal.

[mavsfan1000]

They don't want to hear proof

Them laker fans have short memories. They remember when Kobe makes them, but forget the other 71% of the times he misses them

Kobe's FG% in clutch situations is right above league average. A bunch of guys with a lot of attempts shoot better than he does, inlcuding Wade, LeBron, Melo, Ray Allen, etc.


also, laker fans should learn

being clutch is not about hitting a tough shot.

it's about knowing how to make your shot EASIER, so that you can make more of them. this is called basketball IQ, working hard to get open without the ball, playing the give N go, finding the best spots for a high percentage shot attempt

where as Kobe?

what the does kobe do every time? he plays iso and dribbles and stares down his defender and then tries some crazy ass shot. that's low bball IQ. more of a drama actor for the cameras than a basketball player. he's not alone though, his generation of guys grew up glamorizing the NBA stars, including mainly MJ, so guys like Kobe, Iverson, etc grew up playing basketball in ISO situations instead of team ball and fundamentals

4 rings from Kobe and 6 rings from MJ. Team play is much harder to pull off in the playoffs when teams know all your plays. Being just slightly above average FG% in a playoff setting is good enough. You need that superstar to take over when the set plays don't work.

[admiralsnackbar]

How sad is it that a Mavs boy ends up jocking for Kobe? Besides the evidence that Bryant isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, the best closer in history?

Go buy a Kobe Lakers jersey and completely buy into the myth. Most hoops fans who have been alive longer than 20 yrs will just smirk on your behalf.

[Darrin]

There's plenty of footage of Kobe Bryant on Youtube. I wonder if you did a search for the other player in this discussion.

[pauls931]

Get off Jordans nuts, he's not even the best player to wear 23. Watered down league ftw.

Back then? Barkley, Malone Stockton, Lakers, Celtics, Blazers, Pistons, Orlando Rising. League was just as balanced back then, probably less watered down...

edit: left out rockets cause he never had to deal with them. Hakeem got lucky and snuck in when MJ was out.

[djohn2oo8]

Back then? Barkley, Malone Stockton, Lakers, Celtics, Blazers, Pistons, Orlando Rising. League was just as balanced back then, probably less watered down...

edit: left out rockets cause he never had to deal with them. Hakeem got lucky and snuck in when MJ was out.

It's amazing that people around here tell rocket fans to stop talkin about rings from 15 years ago, when other posters keep bringing up how lucky Hakeem was not to have to deal with MJ. In fact, Hakeem went to the finals twice in the 80's and had to deal with Larry Bird and company, while Jordan was nowhere to be found. Those rockets teams were derailed by injuries even then, and drugs, so don't act like Hakeem won rings it based on luck.

[mogrovejo]

A guy who hits less than 30% of his closing shots can't be the best closer ever.

The point is to make plenty of them at a good rate, not to take so many of them than even if you just hit a few you're still making plenty of them.