Certainly not based on his NBA career, but without research I have no idea what he did in Europe or for his NT.
Manu has three rings. He was instrumental in two of those (shoul've gotten the finals MVP in 05). He has a 6th man award, one trip to the ASG and one 3rd team all NBA.
That is a pretty good NBA resume.
Add his international accomplishments and he is a HOF lock.
Well yea, 3 rings, no MVPs or Finals MVP's (altho Manu is as close as u can get to that in 2005).
They were both considered "second options" to Timmy and Bird, but at least we know from watching the games that Manu is more important (or has more claim on) the rings he's won than in Kevin McHale... who IMO a great player but incredibly overrated and owed a LOT more to the presence of Larry Bird then Manu does to the presence of Timmy (which im not understating in general, just in comparison).
Manu has also brought his own style of play to the NBA, which a lot of players cant say theyve done. Even greats like Kobe for example have openly acknowleedged that they've taken all their moves from the players before them and put it all together... Manu on the other hand is almost impossible to replace largely due to his unique style of play and skill set.
So basically, if a guy like Kevin Mchale (or even Robert Parish) can get into the Hall, Manu's NBA career shud be just about enough to see him thru as well! If you add in the Intl career its a lock!
Kukoc's international career:
3x Euroleage Final Four MVP
1990 FIBA World Championship MVP
5x Eurosar Player of the Year
4x Mr. Europa Player of the Year
1991 Eoropean Championship MVP
2x Olympic Silver medalist
World Championship Gold medalist
2x Euro Championship Gold medalist
And of course 3x NBA champ and 6th man of the year winner
McHale was a 7 time all star and 6 time all NBA defender.
Damn. Add an Olympic Gold to that, and he's right on pace with Manu.
It depends how strong of a pull the international guys at the HOF committee have but Manu has had a pretty special career. He's part of the handful that has won a Euroleague le, an NBA championship, and an Olympic gold medal; however Ginobili has been the MVP or in the candidacy thereof on all those teams.
It'd be great to see him in but by the time he's on a ballot...the HOF committee could have pretty big changes in its composition and voting.
Even without the international accolades, Manu has an NBA resume that people would kill for!
i just wanna mother ing win
This I absolutely agree with.
If you look at the players who've been inducted into the Hall of Fame based upon their NBA accomplishments, you've really got to be a great among greats to make the cut. I counted a few years ago and there were shockingly few players who were: (a) in the Hall of Fame based upon their NBA accomplishments (this excludes players like Bill Bradley, who is in mostly because he was a great collegiate player); and (b) not on the Top 50 list. I mean, the number was less than 50 certainly and it might have been less than 30. It's an extremely selective honor -- most 3-time All-Stars and 1-time All-NBA players don't get there.
Tony Parker, at this point of his career, is going to sink or swim in Springfield based on what he's done in the NBA.
Manu Ginobili, by contrast, is a player whose international resume is almost without parallel among non-Americans, and whose NBA resume is quite solid. I think the biggest bonus in Manu's favor is that his team had sustaining success in big international tournaments and he was obviously the best player on those teams. His 2004 Argentina team remains the only Olympic gold medalist in the pro era that wasn't from the USA and followed that up with a bronze in Beijing. His teams played well at the world championships in both 2002 (2nd) and 2006 (4th). So, over the course of 4 major international tournaments, the Argentines finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Manu made the All-Tournament team at each of the World Championships. And, apparently, Manu was named MVP of the 2004 Olympic tournament (though I don't see that there is traditionally an MVP award given in Olympic tournaments). So, Manu is the clear driving force of a team that had sustained success in the biggest international tournaments. I don't think anyone disputes any of that.
His accomplishments playing in the Euro leagues before his move to the NBA are also significant and relevant.
(Edit: I see the point in the Kukoc comparison, though I might distinguish Manu from Kukoc inasmuch as Manu made his international resume during the Dream Team era and Kukoc really didn't. But I think the point is well-taken; much like comparing Robert Horry to Michael Cooper in terms of Hall of Fame credentials).
Manu is a different case than Parker, though, because Parker doesn't have that extra dimension to his career. Manu and Parker are relatively close as NBA players. In my estimation, Parker has been the better player in the NBA and will, at the end of their careers, have been a better NBA player. But neither is likely to get in on an NBA resume alone.
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 03-17-2010 at 10:15 AM.
yes, Manu is a hoss.
Impressive. I'd still rate Manu's overall body of work as superior, but its closer than I would have thought. Manu's NT and NBA peaks were certainly much higher than Tony's, as Manu's 2004 Olympics and 2005 NBA Finals trump the 1990 WC and whichever NBA championship run was Tony's best.
I'm not sure about that. Other than the rings that he won along with Tim and Tony he doesn't have a lot of personal achievements. He's only made an All Star appearance once. Yes he's won 6MOY award but that's not really saying much. The biggest thing he's ever gotten is 3rd All NBA Team. There's a lot of guys who've had more impressive accomplishments in the NBA than Manu.Even without the international accolades, Manu has an NBA resume that people would kill for!
I say He is Borderline, But Probably Not Good enough Numbers.... And In No Way Is he anywhere Close to Being Better then Tim Duncan..... Maybe Tony But Not Tim.
I think this should go without saying. Manu is not among the 10-15 best players in the history of the game; Tim Duncan is.
Manu may be better able right now to take over a game (I'm not saying he is better able to do that in 2010, just that there might be an argument for it), but that's a far cry from saying that Manu is or has been a better player than Tim Duncan.
Well I'm pretty sure there are a lot of guys that would want to even smell the finals, much less get 3 rings. I think Manu's "problem" is the the HOF is for personal accomplishments and he makes the team's accomplishments his focus.
No question about it. I also don't understand how Tim or Tony slip into a conversation about Manu's HoF chances...
Come on too Throwed!!!!!! i know how that doja be getting yoU!
anyways, i always knew Manu was better then Tony, but i dont know about tim! at this point right now, he might be better, but you like everyone also takes Timmy for granted, like he grabs 10 boards, and scores 20 points every game and thats not good enough for most people! when the team is in need of Timmy, best believe he produces, especially in the playoffs!
TIM then Manu!!!
Tim and Manu both make it in the HOF!!! Ginobili has a sixth man award, a world champion, 3 les! Ginobili was significant in those le runs, best believe he makes it! If Dirk makes it, Gino is locked!
I dont need no help my n****, i can do bad all my self! Z-ro!
I agree that Tim Duncan's Hall of Fame chances (which are at 100%) have nothing to do with what will happen to Manu or Tony.
I can see that a comparison of Tony and Manu is appropriate, if only because their NBA resumes are fairly similar.
* TD is obviously a lock since he is one of the top 10 player of all time
* Thanx to his International acheivements (Argentina + Bologna) Manu will probably make it too (i'd say 80%)
* Parker won't make it unless:
a - he has another 2 or 3 stellar NBA seasons
b - he carries France to the Olympic Final in London
(which is not totally impossible)
TD was going to be a lock the first year he came into the league.
Tony doesn't have much of a chance right now.
Manu does have a legitimate shot of making it if he stopped playing today.
i just wanna mother ing win
+1
If he hits 20k in points and 7000 assists, I can see him in the discussion. But you hit it on the head, that's gonna take about 4 more seasons of injury free basketball. I'm not sure if he can play much past 33 or 34 the way his body breaks down.
TD>>>>>Manu.
But TD is who will make Manu and TP a hof.Some players are hof because they were lucky to play alont the greatest players of all time.They had talent but there was more players with the same talent that never will be a hof.
Manu's Intl career makes him HOF in FIBA's world, add NBA's status and all his acomplishment make him a solid candidate.
Manu's Intl > Tony's, anyhow TP is younger and could make some good contribution to his candidacy.
Kukoc, Divac are probably the closest comparison to Manu, not sure if Drazen Petrovic is already a HOF under NBA, but for sure in FIBA's world.
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