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Josh Howard has made maybe one clutch play in his entire life. Thats what some people were missing when they called Josh for Butler even close to lateral. Butler is so much mentally stronger than J-Ho its crazy to even discuss it.
it's hard to win a ring when your 2nd option choked. See josh howard, 2008 gasol, mo williams...
Josh Howard has made maybe one clutch play in his entire life. Thats what some people were missing when they called Josh for Butler even close to lateral. Butler is so much mentally stronger than J-Ho its crazy to even discuss it.
You can't completely disregard that or the Warriors debacle. Sure, there is certainly more than meets they eye, but you can't just disregard those things.
You forgot Duncan, unless you are strictly talking this year only.
Maybe I should have re-phrased that. Pre-trade 09-10 Mavs weren't better, but were more talented and balanced definitely.
Post-trade though??? You gotta be joking. This Mavericks team would kick the living out of those Warriors, no questions about it. This team is FAR superior to that team mentally, talentwise, and ESPECIALLY IQ-wise. What was sad about that team, was that Deaven George was probably the 6th or 7th best player on that squad (Dirk, Terry, Howard, Stack, Harris, and Dampier being the only players clearly superior, and aside from Dirk, that team had such low IQ, its not even funny, which is why Avery had to basically call every play, unlike with the Mavs now). That's how badly they lacked talent. Even the biggest of Mavs fans were afraid that a big upset could occur because of the bizzare matchup problems. I would put money on it that the Mavericks squad right now would dispatch those Mavericks in 5 games if they could play a 7 game series.
You're just mad that Nash had more fun with Dirk than he has with Hill
There are obviously a select amount of these guys but imo a true franchise player is someone capable of winning regular season MVP and finals MVP in the same year. When you look at the list of players who have done this it's pretty small.
I was talking just his 2006 playoff run. He was phenomenal up until Miami where he had a few poor games but still had a decent series.
Duncan in his prime was easily a 1.0. Nowadays, he's more of a 1.5. If the Spurs had a bit stronger supporting cast, he could win a ring.
My definition of a "franchise player" is a player that you can build a successful franchise around. And while the Mavs never won it all, they have had success with Dirk as the main guy for almost a decade now.
I think 2005 and 2006 were pretty solid years for the NBA. Not real top heavy, as everyone knew it was mainly between San Antonio, Detroit, and Dallas in 06 for whomever would win it all. Phoenix and Miami had good teams, and then pretty much anyone in the West were teams that people thought of as being dark horses to get hot and suprise people, like Houston, Denver, Memphis, Sacramento, Clippers, Lakers, etc...
That Spurs team that lost to the Mavs IMO was better than any of the other Spurs teams that won championships, they just unfortunately ran into a bad matchup with the Mavs who were also a pretty damn good squad. I'm not saying that to try to act like the Mavs are superior to the Spurs or something. They just got unfortunate to have to play such a tough series so early, and the series was just a few plays away from being either the Mavs in 5 or the Spurs in 5. Thats how tightly contested it was. But that Spurs team was beastly.
You could say that about every single great player. You have to have the right mix of players to win a championship. You can't just give Jordan a team of 9 other Mark Madsens and say he will win a championship regardless. You have to have a great balance all around no matter what.
It obviously wasn't between Dallas Detroit and San Antonio. 2006 was weak for that reason. The main contenders were so weak that the Heat were able to limp into the playoffs and peak at the right time. The Suns came within 2 games of the NBA finals without their leading scorer. The in Clippers were a fluky Raja Bell 3 away from the Western Conference finals. I maybe phrased it wrong, the league wasn't weak as a whole from 2005-2007 but the top of the league was compared to other years. The Pistons eventually blew up their team because they were no longer contenders as the top of the league was getting better.
If they were all healthy then yeah, but if they were all healthy they probably win a championship. Duncan had that foot injury and Ginobili had all kinds of injuries that year and never returned to 2005 form.
Great point. Even when Wade won his he had alonzo, Shaq and Payton (past their primes i admit) HOF'ers to make key plays ....
dirk's key guys have been streaky players especially as "clutch" players: stack, Jet, kidd are Howard especially can be great but when their shot is off only kidd still makes a a significant impact ...
i think dirk would be best in KG's role (part of a BIG 3) or as the secondary start a la Gasol. I AM NOT saying he is not BETTEr than Pau ...but in Pau's role Dirk would be even more of a beast ...
if dirk wants to win a ring, he needs to join another team as the #2 best player like gasol did.
Bow down to the king, es.
lame. tbh if you're out there on the court playing, you can take the injury excuse and shove it up your ass.
Dirk played against GS dealing with bone spurs. Nobody is here making excuses for him in that series.
and unfortunately I feel Dirk has already proven he isn't capable of leading a team to a championship. he choked away the 06 Finals. end of story.
tell me all about that fadeaway over shaq. then shove it up your ass. Dirk's choking came well before game 5 or 6. it came in game 3, when the team was about to go up 3-0 in the series, and instead of stepping on Miami's throat and ending the series right there, Dirk (along with the rest of the team) got scared, played scared, and let the Heat back into the series.
I feel strongly that if the Mavs are ever back in that position, the same thing will happen again. They just don't have the killer instinct to do it. Even after this trade I feel that way.
But I hope like Dirk proves me wrong, and I'll continue to expect something which I don't believe has a chance in of happening.
Yep no doubt Dirk needs to fix his reputation as a choker. But maybe he can prove the doubters wrong now.
Last edited by mavsfan1000; 03-18-2010 at 12:08 AM.
Not making excuses. Simply saying that injuries were the reason the 2006 Spurs weren't as good as the 2005 or 2007 Spurs.
I can definitely agree with you about the top heaviness of the league. But IMO, 2005 & 2006 was a of a lot stronger than it was in 2007.
What does a supporting cast have to do with anything? Dirk is the #1 guy and didn't deliver a championship. He's a failure as a #1.
because he is better than Pau, you ing idiot.
I'd take Dirk over Kobe. Similar quality, so I'd go with size.
I'll agree there, the general weakness contenders had bottomed out in 2007 (hence why no one watched the finals, it was terrible basketball), after that several players who had been wasting away on 30 win teams got traded to other teams and made them strong contenders.
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