Way to go Democrats!

[DMX7]

Hawaii has employer mandated heathcare. It's on earth over there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/he...l?pagewanted=1



HONOLULU — Imee Gallardo, 24, has been scooping ice cream at a Häagen-Dazs shop at Waikiki Beach for five years, and during that time the shop has done something its counterparts on the mainland rarely do: it has paid for her health care.

Ms. Gallardo cannot imagine any other system.

“I wouldn’t get coverage on the mainland?” Ms. Gallardo asked. “Even if I worked? Why?”

Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

Lawmakers working on a national health care fix have much to learn from the past 35 years in Hawaii, President Obama’s native state.

Among the most important lessons is that even small steps to change the system can have lasting effects on health. Another is that, once benefits are entrenched, taking them away becomes almost impossible. There have not been any serious efforts in Hawaii to repeal the law, although cheating by employers may be on the rise.

But perhaps the most intriguing lesson from Hawaii has to do with costs. This is a state where regular milk sells for $8 a gallon, gasoline costs $3.60 a gallon and the median price of a home in 2008 was $624,000 — the second-highest in the nation. Despite this, Hawaii’s health insurance premiums are nearly tied with North Dakota for the lowest in the country, and Medicare costs per beneficiary are the nation’s lowest.

Hawaii residents live longer than people in the rest of the country, recent surveys have shown, and the state’s health care system may be one reason. In one example, Hawaii has the nation’s highest incidence of breast cancer but the lowest death rate from the disease.

[continued]

[Duff McCartney]

But, reading your remarks, one has to wonder why she went to the hospital if she'd rather be dead than in debt. Did she think it wouldn't cost money?

I know she did, she's not stupid and I know you're being obtuse to make a point. But 7 grand for one day? Is that fair? Is that fair to someone who can't afford health insurance? Your entire arguement is that people are going to the hospital due to illnesses they cause, but alot of affliction aren't caused by people.

Many types of cancers, intestinal diseases and the likes aren't brought on by the lifestyle, they are just heriditary. You're right I can make the choice not to go to the hospital, but it shouldn't be because I'm afraid it will bankrupt me in the process. That should never be the reason..ever!

[Duff McCartney]

Which is why Britain's and Canada's wealthy (including the Canadian Prime Minister) and their desperate come to America when they need something important done.

Whomever is doing the ranking is weighting the criteria.

This country provides the best, most innovative, and curative medical care in the world.

Yes, the World Health Organization is weighting the rankings. And like I said with the rankings of the World Health Organization, the most recognized body in medicine, the United States isn't even in the top 30. Period.

I'd rather believe the research and facts of the WHO than the opinions of you.

[Duff McCartney]

You're a waste of oxygen. You really expect us to believe healthcare in Cuba is almost as good as what we have here in the United States?

I don't expect you to believe anything but the facts. FACT according to the WHO the United States ranks 37th. FACT according to the WHO Cuba ranks 39th.

[Crookshanks]

I don't expect you to believe anything but the facts. FACT according to the WHO the United States ranks 37th. FACT according to the WHO Cuba ranks 39th.

Tell you what then - next time your mother gets sick, fly her to Cuba. And let us know how that works out for you.

[Yonivore]

I don't expect you to believe anything but the facts. FACT according to the WHO the United States ranks 37th. FACT according to the WHO Cuba ranks 39th.

Didn't the WHO recently tell us we were all going to die of SARS and then Swine Flu?

The WHO is the medical equivalent of the IPCC.

[Duff McCartney]

Tell you what then - next time your mother gets sick, fly her to Cuba. And let us know how that works out for you.

Why would I do that? It would take time to go there, you know time we don't have. State department visas and like that. There is still limits as to how you can travel to Cuba.

[Duff McCartney]

Didn't the WHO recently tell us we were all going to die of SARS and then Swine Flu?

The WHO is the medical equivalent of the IPCC.

Again instead of looking at the facts you choose to bring ad hominem attacks and belittle the organization who is making the studies.

And I don't think the WHO told anyone that we were going to die from either SARS or Swine Flu. Show me where the WHO released a statement saying we are all going to die and I'll read it. But until then you're just making baseless claims. But I except nothing better from you.

[Yonivore]

The first of many Easter Eggs to be found in Obamacare legislation...


Exempted From Obamacare: Senior Staff Who Wrote the Bill

and, Duff, I'll have the WHO debate in another thread if you'd like to start one. Suffice it to say, their "studies" are highly dependent on nations self-reporting and how those countries define certain medical conditions and mortality rates.

[Yonivore]

Why would I do that? It would take time to go there, you know time we don't have. State department visas and like that. There is still limits as to how you can travel to Cuba.

Seriously, if those barriers didn't exist, you'd take your mother there?

[whottt]

Why would I do that? It would take time to go there, you know time we don't have. State department visas and like that. There is still limits as to how you can travel to Cuba.

You can renounce your citizenship and get there easy enough. Getting them to accept you will be another thing entirely. If you aren't rich you can pretty much forget about it, and you can also forget about them treating your mother.

[whottt]

Duff, you think if we adopted Cuba's policies towards HIV our health care system would get a better ranking?

[Duff McCartney]

Duff, you think if we adopted Cuba's policies towards HIV our health care system would get a better ranking?

I'm not advocating adopting Cuba's health care policies. I'm simply stating that their healthcare is only marginally worse than ours. They even have health tourism! If it was so ty, people wouldn't go there for healthcare as tourists.

[Yonivore]

I'm not advocating adopting Cuba's health care policies. I'm simply stating that their healthcare is only marginally worse than ours. They even have health tourism! If it was so ty, people wouldn't go there for healthcare as tourists.

Cubans should be so lucky to get the health care provided the tourists.

[Duff McCartney]

The first of many Easter Eggs to be found in Obamacare legislation...


Exempted From Obamacare: Senior Staff Who Wrote the Bill

and, Duff, I'll have the WHO debate in another thread if you'd like to start one. Suffice it to say, their "studies" are highly dependent on nations self-reporting and how those countries define certain medical conditions and mortality rates.

It's not just the WHO that has stated the low rankings of the U.S. health care system. The Commonwealth Fund has also. Again I ask where are you getting your information from? Are you just making it up? Not that I wouldn't put it past you.

[Duff McCartney]

You can renounce your citizenship and get there easy enough. Getting them to accept you will be another thing entirely. If you aren't rich you can pretty much forget about it, and you can also forget about them treating your mother.

So in order to not be buried in debt, I'd have to renounce my citizenship? Is that what our health care has come to? I don't even have to renounce my citizenship to do that, I can just go to Europe. The EU treats tourists for free. And many European nations rank higher than the U.S. in terms of health care.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So in order to not be buried in debt, I'd have to renounce my citizenship? Is that what our health care has come to? I don't even have to renounce my citizenship to do that, I can just go to Europe. The EU treats tourists for free. And many European nations rank higher than the U.S. in terms of health care.

whott doesn't believe in having insurance... he is just going to stiff the hospital that has to treat him. $7,000! insurance the hospital, joe public.. Whott ain't gonna pay ..insurance? he don't need no stinking insurance

[whottt]

I'm not advocating adopting Cuba's health care policies. I'm simply stating that their healthcare is only marginally worse than ours. They even have health tourism! If it was so ty, people wouldn't go there for healthcare as tourists.

I used to go to Mexico for medical reasons. Doesn't mean I envy their health care system. I do however envy their prices.

Amazing how it works that way though isn't it? How much do you think you Mom's bill would cost in Mexico if she could get treatment?

If I were you I would tell your Mom to tell the medical collectors to take a hike.


I'm with you on hating the high cost of medical care, where I am not with you is on giving the people that drove up the cost and who make the most money, and benefit the most from it being so outrageous, a near unlimited budget. Which is what we have just done. We've made the people that stuck it to your mother much richer. Out of control health care costs worked for them on just about every level possible.


There is only one way to bring the costs of medical care down...stop paying so much for it.

[Mr. Peabody]

The first of many Easter Eggs to be found in Obamacare legislation...


Exempted From Obamacare: Senior Staff Who Wrote the Bill

So . . . while members of congress and their personal staff have to get their insurance through the exchange during their terms of service, committee staff and leadership staff can purchase their own private insurance plans like the rest of us . . . I'm outraged.

[whottt]

whott doesn't believe in having insurance... he is just going to stiff the hospital that has to treat him. $7,000! insurance the hospital, joe public.. Whott ain't gonna pay ..insurance? he don't need no stinking insurance

Exactly right. You're an idiot if you think medical insurance is an essential of life right there with water, food and shelter. Only because people have made it so.

Weak minded fool.

It's the insurance companies stupid. If you'd been alive long enough you'd know that.

[whottt]

whott doesn't believe in having insurance... he is just going to stiff the hospital that has to treat him. $7,000! insurance the hospital, joe public.. Whott ain't gonna pay ..insurance? he don't need no stinking insurance

BTW, I'm gonna think of you every time I stick it to this system. And I'm gonna do that a whole lot. Because it is tyranny.

Put your humanity to the test

And if you don't like you can kiss my ing ass, I'm poor ...you ing owe me.

PS: Thanks for taking away my incentive to not have any kids. In fact, that whole bull about poor people having a load kids being the main cause of poverty is about to be exposed for the lie that it is. I have absolutely zero doubt this Utopian solution can handle it.

[SnakeBoy]

That's pretty much the only option available to people nowadays. You know if tomorrow I found out I have cancer or a disease where treatment exceeded hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd rather die. I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life buried in debt because that is no way for any human being to live.

Like what happened with my mom last year and this year, last year for being in the hospital for ONE, count it..ONE ing day she was billed 7K. 7 thousand dollars for one ing day. This year last month she went back in for the same illness, a gastrointestinal problem, and she stayed for 4 days. That's probably another 20 thousand dollars. We don't have insurance. She's 54 years old, and she'll be dead before she ever pays off the 27 thousand she owes. She has joked that they should have let her die than have to live with that kind of debt.

How does Obamacare change anything for your mom?

[Duff McCartney]

How does Obamacare change anything for your mom?

For one thing she'd be subsidized for insurance she can't afford. Nevermind that, if she tried to get insurance now, she'd probably be denied for the pre-existing condition that she went to the hospital for.

[Duff McCartney]

I used to go to Mexico for medical reasons. Doesn't mean I envy their health care system. I do however envy their prices.

Amazing how it works that way though isn't it? How much do you think you Mom's bill would cost in Mexico if she could get treatment?

If I were you I would tell your Mom to tell the medical collectors to take a hike.


I'm with you on hating the high cost of medical care, where I am not with you is on giving the people that drove up the cost and who make the most money, and benefit the most from it being so outrageous, a near unlimited budget. Which is what we have just done. We've made the people that stuck it to your mother much richer. Out of control health care costs worked for them on just about every level possible.


There is only one way to bring the costs of medical care down...stop paying so much for it.

She'll never tell them to take a hike because unlike what you're advocating she's a responsible person. While my sister and my mother would both tell me to get medical treatment, I'd tell the entire medical community to get ed if I was ever ill with a disease that required massive hospital time. I don't care if I'd die, because as I said before I'd rather die than live with massive debts.

I don't like alot of this bill but it's a step in the right direction. If it were up to me, I'd have the congress pass laws to regulate the cost of healthcare. Simple things like drugs and basic care being regulated would drive down the cost of healthcare like nothing this bill could ever do. And not paying for healthcare costs will just drive it up more, they'd need to make up the money they lost by you not paying.

The problem is that the entire medical industry is run like a business, which is fine if you're selling cheeseburgers, not fine if you're saving peoples lives.

[whottt]

She'll never tell them to take a hike because unlike what you're advocating she's a responsible person. While my sister and my mother would both tell me to get medical treatment, I'd tell the entire medical community to get ed if I was ever ill with a disease that required massive hospital time. I don't care if I'd die, because as I said before I'd rather die than live with massive debts.

I don't like alot of this bill but it's a step in the right direction. If it were up to me, I'd have the congress pass laws to regulate the cost of healthcare. Simple things like drugs and basic care being regulated would drive down the cost of healthcare like nothing this bill could ever do. And not paying for healthcare costs will just drive it up more, they'd need to make up the money they lost by you not paying.

The problem is that the entire medical industry is run like a business, which is fine if you're selling cheeseburgers, not fine if you're saving peoples lives.

It's(paying the outrageous fees) is not being responsible, it's empowering a system that rebirths you into indentured servitude.