Parker should be our 6th man when he comes back.

[TJastal]

This is why I never consider your takes seriously, you're just a ing hater.

We have a thread with TP fan saying why not if it's for the team good and we have a thread with TP haters: "yeah put his ass in second unit, parker is poor Iverson kind of player who can do only drive and kick out without the shooting range".

For the recod as I already said I'd prefer see Manu + TP in the starting 5, Hill is capable to put 20 ppg in the second unit but I would be fine with Hill + Manu.

oh and at TP+Mason is a good combo, Mason is finished. With TP back I expect 0 min for Mason, maximize the manu / hill / tp minutes.

First off, lemme say the Parker worshippers like you are way more annoying than the so called "haters".

It's been brought up many times that Parker is a drive and kick specialist. That's pretty much the extent of his playmaking skills. If you think that makes people "haters" to talk about it, then fine. Go ahead and keep pretending he's got mad playmaking skills while the rest of us discuss reality.

And are you really saying you'd prefer to see Manu and TP in the starting lineup (with Jefferson I'm assuming)? /facepalm

Manu + TP + Jefferson would not only cause the same problems as before (with Jefferson becoming a ghost on both ends of the floor) but we'd be wasting Manu's playmaking talents since the ball would be in Parker's hands most of the time. Kill two birds with one stone w/ that move. Both the 1st unit AND 2nd unit would then suck balls. Congrats. At least Parker's ego is appeased, eh?

I don't hate Parker, but his schtick of getting injured every other week combined with his poor performances this year and obvious limitations as a point guard simply can't be ignored. Jefferson has been on all year long by fans and he accepted his role as a backup man with a "Yes sir, right away sir at ude." If Parker can't do it, then I think he should get the same treatment.

[ohmwrecker]

I think he will come off the bench, at least at first, in limited minutes until he is back in shape. The Spurs are going to need him to play big right away though. There just isn't enough time to baby him.
Tony is not stupid. I'm sure he can see that the chemistry and momentum is high right now and I am sure he doesn't want to disturb that. I don't buy in to the belief that Tony is a selfish player. He plays to his strengths and he had a career year last year carrying this team on his back.
What I do worry about is Pop's inability to rotate players in certain matchups that give the Spurs a clear advantage. He has shown an unwilling stubborness to do this time and time again.
I don't worry about Manu, Tim and Tony. They are warriors and they will do what is best for the team and play to the maximum of their abilities.

[Brazil]

First off, lemme say the Parker worshippers like you are way more annoying than the so called "haters".

It's been brought up many times that Parker is a drive and kick specialist. That's pretty much the extent of his playmaking skills. If you think that makes people "haters" to talk about it, then fine. Go ahead and keep pretending he's got mad playmaking skills while the rest of us discuss reality.

And are you really saying you'd prefer to see Manu and TP in the starting lineup (with Jefferson I'm assuming)? /facepalm

Manu + TP + Jefferson would not only cause the same problems as before (with Jefferson becoming a ghost on both ends of the floor) but we'd be wasting Manu's playmaking talents since the ball would be in Parker's hands most of the time. Kill two birds with one stone w/ that move. Both the 1st unit AND 2nd unit would then suck balls. Congrats. At least Parker's ego is appeased, eh?

I don't hate Parker, but his schtick of getting injured every other week combined with his poor performances this year and obvious limitations as a point guard simply can't be ignored. Jefferson has been on all year long by fans and he accepted his role as a backup man with a "Yes sir, right away sir at ude." If Parker can't do it, then I think he should get the same treatment.

I am annoying you how ? because I'm a fan of parker / manu and tim ? I have no ing problem to see parker in the second unit, how am I a homer ? please tell me. I participate in a civilized way on the trade parker thread.

On the other hand you are just passing your time finding a way to bash the guy. If you think parker play making ability is just drive and kick out I can't imagine what do you think about Hill.

lol at your ing birds argument, in this current team the only player with most PT spent with TP than Manu is Tim Duncan and guess what the spurs won 3 rings.... yeah tp and manu can't play together. Watch a game for a change.

For the last part, the tp's ego give me one example of this ing ego argument ? with the arrival of Jeff the player who reduced the most his touches is parker. Did you hear him complaining about that ? based on what you presume he won't accept a bench player role ?

[TJastal]

I think he will come off the bench, at least at first, in limited minutes until he is back in shape. The Spurs are going to need him to play big right away though. There just isn't enough time to baby him.
Tony is not stupid. I'm sure he can see that the chemistry and momentum is high right now and I am sure he doesn't want to disturb that. I don't buy in to the belief that Tony is a selfish player. He plays to his strengths and he had a career year last year carrying this team on his back.
What I do worry about is Pop's inability to rotate players in certain matchups that give the Spurs a clear advantage. He has shown an unwilling stubborness to do this time and time again.
I don't worry about Manu, Tim and Tony. They are warriors and they will do what is best for the team and play to the maximum of their abilities.

If the Parker as bench player/6th man works, then it should be left that way even after he works himself back into shape.

In essence, it would basically just be Tony and Manu trading places. Might take some time for him to get used to it but I defenitely feel it could be work.

[TJastal]

I am annoying you how ? because I'm a fan of parker / manu and tim ? I have no ing problem to see parker in the second unit, how am I a homer ? please tell me. I participate in a civilized way on the trade parker thread.

On the other hand you are just passing your time finding a way to bash the guy. If you think parker play making ability is just drive and kick out I can't imagine what do you think about Hill.

lol at your ing birds argument, in this current team the only player with most PT spent with TP than Manu is Tim Duncan and guess what the spurs won 3 rings.... yeah tp and manu can't play together. Watch a game for a change.

For the last part, the tp's ego give me one example of this ing ego argument ? with the arrival of Jeff the player who reduced the most his touches is parker. Did you hear him complaining about that ? based on what you presume he won't accept a bench player role ?

You call it bashing. I call it living in reality :P I'm looking for ways we can be a more effective team WITH him when he comes back. Would a pure basher still think he can still be an integral piece of the puzzle hmm?

Just because the big 3 won championships in the past doesn't really mean squat at the present time. That was then, this is now. We didn't have Jefferson and George Hill as pieces to work with and fit in back then.

So you agree that Parker should be a 6th man, and won't blink an eye if Pop actually uses him in that role. We'll see about that. I hope you're right.

I won't deny I like Hill in the starting lineup more than Parker. He's not a playmaker either but he spreads the floor better and moves the ball around to find open shooters. When Parker is on the court, ball movement slows down, there is more 1 vs 1 and most of the offense runs through him and Duncan exclusively. This freezes Jefferson out of the offense. You'll probably call me a TD basher too but less touches and 4 down for Duncan might be a good thing. He hasn't been as effective in the low block as he used to be.

I prefer Hill in the starting unit w/ Jefferson for these reasons. The improved defense doesn't hurt either. But its Manu's playmaking skills that is making the whole thing work. The synergy between Hill, Manu, and Jefferson is undeniable.

[venitian navigator]

I still think that at the end Pop choice will consider the first round match ups...
However, I understand the fact that the trio of Hill - Manu - RJ has developed a good chemistry...
That's a good point and we have to consider Parker had a very particular season, losing a lot of games also before the hand injury and not playing at his level 'cause he was evidently tired.
But at this point, going on reasoning in this way, we should also consider that the best combo, in the last seasons, for our team, has been Duncan - Parker...
So, if the choice is the one of make Parker start from the bench, why not do the same with Tim ?
If it's true that Spurs players feel that the most important thing is not egos, but win, and if they and Pop think (or realize) that the best chance to win is to put together on court the players that work together at best, we could have a starting five of :

Hill - Manu - RJ - Blair - Dice

Then, at the some time, 6/7th man : Parker / Duncan
Then : Bogans (Hairston/Mason) - Bonner

Obviously, in the "winning minutes" in the fourth quarter : Parker - Manu - Tim and whoever else in necessary to complement our big three depending the team and players we face...

[DesignatedT]

I dont think parker should come off the bench. Putting Manu back on the bench should be a smooth transition since hes so familiar with coming off the bench in his career.

The more interesting question is who is going to be closing games.... Tony? Hill? RJ? we know Duncan and Manu are. RJ at the 4 again?

[DesignatedT]

I still think that at the end Pop choice will consider the first round match ups...
However, I understand the fact that the trio of Hill - Manu - RJ has developed a good chemistry...
That's a good point and we have to consider Parker had a very particular season, losing a lot of games also before the hand injury and not playing at his level 'cause he was evidently tired.
But at this point, going on reasoning in this way, we should also consider that the best combo, in the last seasons, for our team, has been Duncan - Parker...
So, if the choice is the one of make Parker start from the bench, why not do the same with Tim ?
If it's true that Spurs players feel that the most important thing is not egos, but win, and if they and Pop think (or realize) that the best chance to win is to put together on court the players that work together at best, we could have a starting five of :

Hill - Manu - RJ - Blair - Dice

Then, at the some time, 6/7th man : Parker / Duncan
Then : Bogans (Hairston/Mason) - Bonner

Obviously, in the "winning minutes" in the fourth quarter : Parker - Manu - Tim and whoever else in necessary to complement our big three depending the team and players we face...

parker and duncan off the bench?

[nkdlunch]

agree 100%

why up the existing chemistry.


Good thread

[barbacoataco]

The Spurs won't have long to figure this out. I think in the playoffs they need to play - Duncan, McDyess, RJeff, Ginobili, Parker and Hill as much as possible. Then Bonner, Blair and either Mason/Bogans just enough to give them a little rest. With no b2b's the best players can play more minutes.

The thing to look at is who plays well together. RJ plays better with Ginobili. Parker plays well with Ginobili. Hill and Parker together not as good. Hill with Jefferson are starting to gel. I hope Pop will put it together.

[DesignatedT]

The Spurs won't have long to figure this out. I think in the playoffs they need to play - Duncan, McDyess, RJeff, Ginobili, Parker and Hill as much as possible. Then Bonner, Blair and either Mason/Bogans just enough to give them a little rest. With no b2b's the best players can play more minutes.

The thing to look at is who plays well together. RJ plays better with Ginobili. Parker plays well with Ginobili. Hill and Parker together not as good. Hill with Jefferson are starting to gel. I hope Pop will put it together.

Duncan needs to play with Tony.

[TJastal]

I dont think parker should come off the bench. Putting Manu back on the bench should be a smooth transition since hes so familiar with coming off the bench in his career.

The more interesting question is who is going to be closing games.... Tony? Hill? RJ? we know Duncan and Manu are. RJ at the 4 again?

So what do you propose be done about Jefferson? Is he going back to the
2nd unit w/ Manu like it was before Parker went out or are you just going to ignore the fact that he played like a pile of half the year in the starting lineup w/ TP?

You do remember that Jefferson's resurgence coincided with playing in tandem with Manu in the 2nd unit right?

[JR3]

Imho it all depends by the teams we're gonna face in the play offs...'cause, for example, the best matchup for us for Parker, if we play the Lakers, is against Fisher (Parker too young and quick for him... and that is our best weapon against L.A.)

I agree but i dont think its that much of a difference. Hill blows by fisher just like parker would.

[DesignatedT]

So what do you propose be done about Jefferson? Is he going back to the
2nd unit w/ Manu like it was before Parker went out or are you just going to ignore the fact that he played like a pile of half the year in the starting lineup w/ TP?

You do remember that Jefferson's resurgence coincided with playing in tandem with Manu in the 2nd unit right?

No i keep him in the SL. He is going to HAVE to play with Parker.. It's Inevitable... It's going to ing happen... especially if we want any sort of chance to win the championship... If you ask me you start them together 3 or 4 games before the playoffs so they can try to establish some more chemistry together...

Manu will be out their most the time in the playoffs either.. I would consider letting Hill come off the 2nd unit before Tony....

And people tend to forget about Tim Duncan in this argument... sure he doesnt look the same and he is a little tired but its no coincidence that his numbers have been down since Tony has been out either.... Tony helps Duncans game also.

[TJastal]

Duncan needs to play with Tony.

Start thinking outside the box, dude. The spurs have relied far too long on that duo. It's not effective enough to carry a team to a championship anymore. Duncan due to age and Parker from fatigue and injury. It's over,
get over it already. Duncan cannot hardly score in the post anymore. It's time that Manu, Hill, and Jefferson start taking the reigns of the team or we're going to be predictable and easy to beat come playoff time.

[DesignatedT]

Start thinking outside the box, dude. The spurs have relied far too long on that duo. It's not effective enough to carry a team to a championship anymore. Duncan due to age and Parker from fatigue and injury. It's over,
get over it already. Duncan cannot hardly score in the post anymore. It's time that Manu, Hill, and Jefferson start taking the reigns of the team or we're going to be predictable and easy to beat come playoff time.

Lol you want to rely on jefferson taking the reigns from duncan. please..

me saying duncan should play with parker is the same thing as you saying jefferson should play with manu....

[TJastal]

No i keep him in the SL. He is going to HAVE to play with Parker.. It's Inevitable... It's going to ing happen... especially if we want any sort of chance to win the championship... If you ask me you start them together 3 or 4 games before the playoffs so they can try to establish some more chemistry together...

Manu will be out their most the time in the playoffs either.. I would consider letting Hill come off the 2nd unit before Tony....

And people tend to forget about Tim Duncan in this argument... sure he doesnt look the same and he is a little tired but its no coincidence that his numbers have been down since Tony has been out either.... Tony helps Duncans game also.

Dude, its not going to happen. They had 3/4 of a year to get it together, and it didn't work. Its not going to magically happen in the last ing week of the season.

Duncan's game is on the decline, and IMO it has little to do with Parker being in the lineup or not. He would still be missing his bank shots and assorted jumphooks and fadeaways whether Parker was the guy standing on the perimeter throwing him the ball or anyone else on the team.

[DesignatedT]

Why not move Hill to the bench.... He's shown he can lead a 2nd unit and hes grown a lot. That way he still gets his shots and hes still the man out their when hes on the court instead of having to adjust to taking a backseat out their on the court. I dunno

Start
Tony
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Dice

[TJastal]

Lol you want to rely on jefferson taking the reigns from duncan. please..

me saying duncan should play with parker is the same thing as you saying jefferson should play with manu....

No.

Jefferson is 10X more dependant on Manu than Duncan is dependant on Parker.

[DesignatedT]

Dude, its not going to happen. They had 3/4 of a year to get it together, and it didn't work. Its not going to magically happen in the last ing week of the season.

Duncan's game is on the decline, and IMO it has little to do with Parker being in the lineup or not. He would still be missing his bank shots and assorted jumphooks and fadeaways whether Parker was the guy standing on the perimeter throwing him the ball or anyone else on the team.

Duncan plays better with parker just like RJ plays better with manu... whats so hard for you to understand there???

And the spurs had a lot more problems earlier in the year than just parker and RJ not gelling...

[DesignatedT]

It seems you have forgotten who tony parker is... and a lot on this board have. RJ better learn to play with him because were going nowhere if he doesnt.

[TJastal]

Why not move Hill to the bench.... He's shown he can lead a 2nd unit and hes grown a lot. That way he still gets his shots and hes still the man out their when hes on the court instead of having to adjust to taking a backseat out their on the court. I dunno

Start
Tony
Manu
RJ
Duncan
Dice

This is the same proposal Brazil made in a different thread. This is just a really bad idea on so many levels.

For starters, in that lineup Parker & Duncan dominate the offense, RJ becomes a ghost and Manu's talent goes to complete waste. You put all the pressure on George Hill to carry the 2nd unit and burn him out quickly.

[DesignatedT]

This is the same proposal Brazil made in a different thread. This is just a really bad idea on so many levels.

For starters, in that lineup Parker & Duncan dominate the offense, RJ becomes a ghost and Manu's talent goes to complete waste. You put all the pressure on George Hill to carry the 2nd unit and burn him out quickly.

Once the playoffs start the 2nd unit is no longer going to be 5 new players. Hill, Parker,Manu,RJ should all be playing 35-40 minutes a game which means some will be playing straight through the first quarter and into the 2nd.

It's not like Hill is going to be out their with

Bogans
Mason
Blair
Bonner

Of course you dont do that. but i dont expect that to be the case. I could see RJ play the first and start the 2nd or even tony to stay in their with hill with the 2nd unit.

the rotations will be different. we should always have 2 out of tony,manu,hill,rj on the court at all times. plus however he plays duncan.

[Mel_13]

Once the playoffs start the 2nd unit is no longer going to be 5 new players. Hill, Parker,Manu,RJ should all be playing 35-40 minutes a game which means some will be playing straight through the first quarter and into the 2nd.

It's not like Hill is going to be out their with

Bogans
Mason
Blair
Bonner

Of course you dont do that. but i dont expect that to be the case. I could see RJ play the first and start the 2nd or even tony to stay in their with hill with the 2nd unit.

the rotations will be different. we should always have 2 out of tony,manu,hill,rj on the court at all times. plus however he plays duncan.

Pretty much.

There are 144 minutes at the three perimeter positions. Starting with a nominal 36mpg for each of the four players you get something like:

1: Parker 36, Hill 12
2: Manu 24, Hill 24
3: RJ 36, Manu 12

Mason, Bogans, and Hairston are used situationally or in garbage time.

Tony and RJ will spend substantial time together. It's simply inevitable if you want to to maximize the minutes of your best players.

[TJastal]

Once the playoffs start the 2nd unit is no longer going to be 5 new players. Hill, Parker,Manu,RJ should all be playing 35-40 minutes a game which means some will be playing straight through the first quarter and into the 2nd.

It's not like Hill is going to be out their with

Bogans
Mason
Blair
Bonner

Of course you dont do that. but i dont expect that to be the case. I could see RJ play the first and start the 2nd or even tony to stay in their with hill with the 2nd unit.

the rotations will be different. we should always have 2 out of tony,manu,hill,rj on the court at all times. plus however he plays duncan.

You really can't see that lineup is just going end up with predictable Parker/Duncan 4 down/pick and roll offense that hasn't been effective for what, going on three years now? Combine that with the fact that Manu's involvement with the offense will be more limited, which will have a negative effect on RJ and he'll go back to sucking.

And your solution is just to play the starters all 48 minutes and everything will be ok.

If anything, bench player minutes for Mason and Bogans will increase more than the starters once Hairston and Temple are not in the rotation. We might see Hairston once every couple games or so but that's it.