Stats Lie...the Well is Dry.

[Parker2112]

Pretty good post. Not sure why you didn't post it in thread you were referring. Maybe the rhyming thread le was too difficult to resist.

I've been saying the same things all year, and before January it was ridiculous The last 20 games have proved that we can win while playing as a team, which is what I've been preaching for years. And what TP fans have been denying for a while.

I didn't post in your thread because, even though it's a response, it is a complete thread in itself. I would have replied in your thread if I had read it early. And after a few hundred mindless handjobs for Timvp, its no longer the way to go.

[Drachen]

I've been saying the same things all year, and before January it was ridiculous The last 20 games have proved that we can win while playing as a team, which is what I've been preaching for years. And what TP fans have been denying for a while.

I didn't post in your thread because, a lot of people had read it already and I was afraid that no one would go back and read my post. Mommy says I am really important so I think everyone should read me too. I would have replied in your thread if I had read it early. And after a few hundred mindless handjobs for Timvp, its no longer the way to go.

fixed.

[Doug Collins]

The only thing worse than a spoiled Spurs fan is an overly self-righteous one.

[DesignatedT]

we get it we get it... tony sucks. hill is better and the spurs should trade him for dalembert. now stfu

[spursfaninla]

pretty sweet rejoinder by timvp

I do notice a difference in ball movement and offensive style with manu as the starting pg. (notice, b/c manu was essentially the pg for the bench the whole year).

I don't know why the OP thinks that the Spurs can't have a complex style of play, some of which takes advantage of parker's strengths at times (one man fast break, best at getting to the rim, best at kickout for 3, best at pnr with duncan), and other styles which utilize manu as ball handler (motion offense opening driving lanes for RJ, Blair, Hill, manu running pnr).

By doing so, we make our offense less predictable. It is easier for the opponent to adjust to us when we have only 1, and they prepare for that.

I do think that parker-centered offense does benefit from 3pt shooting, but 1) Manu is good at that, 2) so is Hill, and 3) bonner works for that.

So, not sure where the problem is there. Our offense just got more diverse and less predictable.

[Parker2112]

But blaming Tony is not the answer...Blame the stale three pronged attack!!!!

This gameplan is the product of years of championship success. It worked for years, but when other teams began to have success against it (or better yet age caught Timmy), and (most important) when our defense dwindled, we should have come up with something new.

Our downfall was that we simply continued to go to the well, even after it was obvious that there wasnt even enough in that approach to beat average teams, holding our hat in our hands and hoping it would come back.

It almost cost us the season. I blame Pop for this.

we get it we get it... tony sucks. hill is better and the spurs should trade him for dalembert. now stfu

so like a Parker fan...cant even read the OP before the bashing starts

[Parker2112]

The only thing worse than a spoiled Spurs fan is an overly self-righteous one.

I call em like I see em...and catch every step.

[Parker2112]

pretty sweet rejoinder by timvp

I don't know why the OP thinks...

When did I say this? I know, lump me in with the mindless Parker haters...

that the Spurs can't have a complex style of play, some of which takes advantage of parker's strengths at times (one man fast break, best at getting to the rim, best at kickout for 3, best at pnr with duncan), and other styles which utilize manu as ball handler (motion offense opening driving lanes for RJ, Blair, Hill, manu running pnr).

By doing so, we make our offense less predictable. It is easier for the opponent to adjust to us when we have only 1, and they prepare for that.

I do think that parker-centered offense does benefit from 3pt shooting, but 1) Manu is good at that, 2) so is Hill, and 3) bonner works for that.

So, not sure where the problem is there. Our offense just got more diverse and less predictable.

Bottom Line: Takes what's open. This includes whats open for Parker. But preserve involvement for everyone through ball movement.

[Drachen]

nice post le change

Thank you very much!

[jjktkk]

pretty sweet rejoinder by timvp

I do notice a difference in ball movement and offensive style with manu as the starting pg. (notice, b/c manu was essentially the pg for the bench the whole year).

I don't know why the OP thinks that the Spurs can't have a complex style of play, some of which takes advantage of parker's strengths at times (one man fast break, best at getting to the rim, best at kickout for 3, best at pnr with duncan), and other styles which utilize manu as ball handler (motion offense opening driving lanes for RJ, Blair, Hill, manu running pnr).

By doing so, we make our offense less predictable. It is easier for the opponent to adjust to us when we have only 1, and they prepare for that.

I do think that parker-centered offense does benefit from 3pt shooting, but 1) Manu is good at that, 2) so is Hill, and 3) bonner works for that.

So, not sure where the problem is there. Our offense just got more diverse and less predictable.

+1. You can even start Hill and Parker together and bring Manu off the bench, if Pop wanted to go that route. Maybe not for this year, but next year. Bottom line is Parker is an asset, and will be needed if the Spurs want to contend.

[ohmwrecker]

The only thing worse than a spoiled Spurs fan is an overly self-righteous one.

Well, . They better burn this whole mother down if that's the case.
I liked the post. You made some decent arguments. Although nothing new was said and I think the big picture tends to get lost in all this over-analysis.
I really like the anti-establishment tone. The same people who trashed you are the same lackeys who are tripping over their s to congratulate Timvp on whatever new thread he posts and whether it's any good or not is irrelevant.
After Sequ"stat-padder"Spur's thread about how high-count posters deserve unearned respect from "noobs", this place seems about as sore as EricB's vagina. I am officially over the whole Spurstalk Old Boys Club.

[DesignatedT]

so like a Parker fan...cant even read the OP before the bashing starts

i read it just seems like an excuse for when we lose (if we do).. blame tony and pop. how original.

[Drachen]

Well, . They better burn this whole mother down if that's the case.
I liked the post. You made some decent arguments. Although nothing new was said and I think the big picture tends to get lost in all this over-analysis.
I really like the anti-establishment tone. The same people who trashed you are the same lackeys who are tripping over their s to congratulate Timvp on whatever new thread he posts and whether it's any good or not is irrelevant.
After Sequ"stat-padder"Spur's thread about how high-count posters deserve unearned respect from "noobs", this place seems about as sore as EricB's vagina. I am officially over the whole Spurstalk Old Boys Club.

Sorry bud, I didn't circle jerk Timvp in his thread (only posted once saying that comparing a hurt TP to george hill isn't the fairest of all comparisons), and although, I guess I am technically a part of the old boys club (original member and male), you can see that my post count is low and I dare you to find a post where I go squawking about how people should respect me. I even called sequ out in his post. , the only problem I have with this particular post is that it is obviously posted by a conceited and attention whorish poster.

[trypldubl]

All his points are valid! The OP was right when he said that teams like the Mavs and Lakers know how to play us. For the Lakers it was let Tony run around their guards for 3 quarters and then close the lanes down in the fourth. Making him either force shots or become a passing guard. The Mavs would stay at home with our shooters and play Tim strait-up. Meanwhile, causing
mismatches on the other end.

[ohmwrecker]

Sorry bud, I didn't circle jerk Timvp in his thread (only posted once saying that comparing a hurt TP to george hill isn't the fairest of all comparisons), and although, I guess I am technically a part of the old boys club (original member and male), you can see that my post count is low and I dare you to find a post where I go squawking about how people should respect me. I even called sequ out in his post. , the only problem I have with this particular post is that it is obviously posted by a conceited and attention whorish poster.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't talking to you.
Edit: You are correct. I made a broad characterization to make my point. Apologies.

[Drachen]

I'm pretty sure I wasn't talking to you.
Edit: You are correct. I made a broad characterization to make my point. Apologies.

NP. I will forgive you, but only because I like your name. THE OLD BOYS CLUB HAS SPOKEN!

[tothrowed]

men lie women lie numbers dont lie....... men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie...

[DesignatedT]

men lie women lie numbers dont lie....... men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie men lie women lie numbers dont lie...

real talk.

[HarlemHeat37]

As for the point with more ball movement without Parker, the numbers don't seem to agree..

APG with Tony Parker out of the lineup this season: 22.5
APG with Tony Parker in the lineup this season: 22.1

There isn't much of a difference at all.. , I thought it would be more than this, since teams often rely on more ball movement when one of their star players go out, since you generally can't make up for the talent of a star..

As for the Spurs getting easier shots and being less reliant on 3s without Parker, the numbers don't seem to agree..

APG at the rim with Tony Parker out of the lineup this season: 8.3
APG at the rim with Tony Parker in the lineup this season: 8.1

APG leading to 3-pointers with TP out of the lineup: 6.1
With TP out: 5.9

This season's version of Manu actually handles the ball more than Parker..Ginobili has been much better than TP this season due to TP's injuries and Manu playing at an unreal level, but they control the ball about the same amount and they get around the same amount of assists in this role..



As for being predictable, ya, I'd say the Spurs become predictable sometimes..does it matter? no, not really..this is the NBA..these teams all have tape and review them before every game..in the playoffs, they study it hard..every team knows what the other team is going to do..this isn't football..

The Lakers ran pick and rolls on every other play in last year's playoffs, it doesn't mean the other team can stop it..the NBA is a lot more free-flowing than any other sport, the talent >>>> the play calling..



People are imagining certain things with the Spurs current resurgence..Manu is clearly the primary reason for the Spurs current success..the ball movement isn't much different, the numbers agree..Manu is just playing at an extremely high level, similar to TP last year, and he's carrying the team..Manu's improvement has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Parker..Manu struggled earlier in the season, even while coming off the bench, for various reasons that he himself touched on..

Jefferson's assisted numbers aren't much different with TP out of the lineup..he's clearly fitting in better with the team and has taken more responsibility with TP out..he's creating some of his own offense and he's rebounding/defending a lot better..TP has nothing to do with that..




The defense has been better with Tony Parker on the floor this season, the numbers agree, so I don't need to speak on that..



There is a concern with how Pop will use Tony, since Manu is on such a hot streak, so we'll see how Pop utilizes Parker..limiting Manu's touches a little more might hurt, but it could also help avoid more wear and tear on him, so we'll see..that's the only concern though..Parker's style has had nothing to do with the Spurs current hot streak, the numbers agree..

[Cry Havoc]

Its not about Parker or Hill, its about ball movement and team play. With it, we are contenders. Without it, we are lost.

Yeah, that makes sense. Because the Spurs have never won with Parker, Manu, and Duncan on the floor together before. I wonder how many other fans would give one of their testicles/ovaries to be able to say, "Oh yeah, that's our stale THREE-PRONGED attack that's good for 65 points, 20 rebounds, and 15 assists per game, while scoring at around 50%."

[DesignatedT]

harlem

[Parker2112]

Yeah, that makes sense. Because the Spurs have never won with Parker, Manu, and Duncan on the floor together before. I wonder how many other fans would give one of their testicles/ovaries to be able to say, "Oh yeah, that's our stale THREE-PRONGED attack that's good for 65 points, 20 rebounds, and 15 assists per game, while scoring at around 50%."

Sorry I was unclear. Three pronged-attack means Parker Drive, Pick and roll, and three pointer.

[Parker2112]

Well, . They better burn this whole mother down if that's the case.
I liked the post. You made some decent arguments. Although nothing new was said and I think the big picture tends to get lost in all this over-analysis.
I really like the anti-establishment tone. The same people who trashed you are the same lackeys who are tripping over their s to congratulate Timvp on whatever new thread he posts and whether it's any good or not is irrelevant.
After Sequ"stat-padder"Spur's thread about how high-count posters deserve unearned respect from "noobs", this place seems about as sore as EricB's vagina. I am officially over the whole Spurstalk Old Boys Club.

You and I think alike sir.

[weebo]

"I have 300 posts, but I'm a better fan than you. Trade Tony Parker. Pop Sucks. LJ and Kori are crap fans because they dared to take care of their baby."

What does post count have to do with fandom? Seriously, some people in here need to get off their high horse because they have an 'x' amount of post. Not everyone has the luxury of sitting in front of a computer posting a thousand times a day.

[Cry Havoc]

Sorry I was unclear. Three pronged-attack means Parker Drive, Pick and roll, and three pointer.

How is that such a bad thing? It's not like Parker MUST AT ALL TIMES initiate our offense. He did it last year because Manu was banged up and Tim was being saved for later in the year, and he did it as effectively as any point guard in the NBA ever has, really. How many guys under, say, 6'6" shoot 50%?

Parker is deadly because you have to counter him by moving a man over in the lane. He initiates contact, and gets fouls (not as often as he should, but still) and he finds ways to score.

I suspect that if Parker was 100% this year there would be no debating. Spurs fans have perhaps the poorest memories of anyone in the NBA. There were times last year when Tony was in the MVP discussion. This year, he should, according to some, play backup to a average PG.

It's really not Parker's fault that when he drives and kicks, our guys clang shots. It's not his fault that Manu waited until NOW to become superman again. Parker and Manu destroyed the media darling Suns in 2005 by themselves. It's baffling to me that suddenly some fans think that Tony stifles our offense.

If Manu had played like he has all year with Tony on the court (to say nothing of HEALTHY), this team would be looking at 60+ wins, not 50. We'd also be a top 3 seed.

So because Manu was playing poorly earlier in the season, should we have given his PT to someone else like Bogans or Mason, on the assumption that Manu was taking FG attempts away from higher % shooters at the time?