Where will Bosh land?

[The Franchise]

well they do have the Knicks' picks, so dunno

Smart man. Send them something like battier and jefferies (expiring), Scola, the NY swap 2011 first rounder, and our 2011 second rounder, and I see them being happy. They will get two good defenders who will be coming off the books at seasons end, and an adequate replacement for Bosh in Scola. Add in two picks, and I don't see them getting any better offers from other teams. Add Yao and Bosh, plus an athletic backup center with our lottery pick and I think we will be set to whip a bunch of ass next season.

[timvpimp]

Houston might be a destination in consideration for Bosh from earlier on but I don't think the H-Town will be the choice he actually makes. I like the structure of salary of the Rockets team and the compounds of talents, except the sad fact that the precious 18 MILLION worth salary space will continue to be used on fallow soil next season, and you all know how much 18 Million means in the 2010 FA market where many superb players will be available there for selections. I'm not sure exactly how much room the Rockets will have available for those free agents come the summer, but ubiquitously 18 Million means quite a lot. Dwayne Wade won't demand a contract with the first year salary bigger than 18 million, nor will Lebron I believe. That said the Rockets would be able to well afford a play of THIS caliber if they hadn't fastened the money to a piece of , which they actually did whereas.

[Mel_13]

Smart man. Send them something like battier and jefferies (expiring), Scola, the NY swap 2011 first rounder, and our 2011 second rounder, and I see them being happy. They will get two good defenders who will be coming off the books at seasons end, and an adequate replacement for Bosh in Scola. Add in two picks, and I don't see them getting any better offers from other teams. Add Yao and Bosh, plus an athletic backup center with our lottery pick and I think we will be set to whip a bunch of ass next season.

No

1. You'll have to give the 2012 NY pick, as well.

2. Jefferies sucks, no way Toronto wants him.

3. The biggest flaw: you can't trade Scola to Toronto unless he wants to go there. Forget about Scola going to that mess in Toronto.

[djohn2oo8]

Houston might be a destination in consideration for Bosh from earlier on but I don't think the H-Town will be the choice he actually makes. I like the structure of salary of the Rockets team and the compounds of talents, except the sad fact that the precious 18 MILLION worth salary space will continue to be used on fallow soil next season, and you all know how much 18 Million means in the 2010 FA market where many superb players will be available there for selections. I'm not sure exactly how much room the Rockets will have available for those free agents come the summer, but ubiquitously 18 Million means quite a lot. Dwayne Wade won't demand a contract with the first year salary bigger than 18 million, nor will Lebron I believe. That said the Rockets would be able to well afford a play of THIS caliber if they hadn't fastened the money to a piece of , which they actually did whereas.

None, if Yao comes off the books in 2011, that's when Carmelo and Durant become free agents. Durant to Houston would be a pipedream, but he definitely stays in OKC, Carmelo, I'm not so sure of. This offseason, we will reload through a sign and trade. Morey will pull another Donnie Walsh on somebody else

[Spursfanfromafar]

An IF and a big IF -

If Utah land the top lottery pick (through the Knicks) ..lets say they get John Wall, a sign and trade for Bosh is surely in order, maybe Kirilenko goes to the Raptors...along with Wall ..and I think that will be a good deal for both teams.

[djohn2oo8]

An IF and a big IF -

If Utah land the top lottery pick (through the Knicks) ..lets say they get John Wall, a sign and trade for Bosh is surely in order, maybe Kirilenko goes to the Raptors...along with Wall ..and I think that will be a good deal for both teams.

Naw, Utah is trying to decrease the number of Blacks on the team

[timvpimp]

None, if Yao comes off the books in 2011, that's when Carmelo and Durant become free agents. Durant to Houston would be a pipedream, but he definitely stays in OKC, Carmelo, I'm not so sure of. This offseason, we will reload through a sign and trade. Morey will pull another Donnie Walsh on somebody else

I know the Mavs will have a better chance to trigger a sign&trade with a team seeking financial relief, because they have Dampier's contract which equals 12 Million of salary space. Any team taking his contract can simply choose not to pick the team option for 2010-2011 season and let him leave naked without paying him a . The Rockets best asset for S&T deals is 's contract that expires in 2011 with about 18m guaranteed for the only year remaining, but I don't see any reason why a trader should choose to pay the 18m over Dampier whom they wouldn't need to pay for.

[The Franchise]

No

1. You'll have to give the 2012 NY pick, as well.

2. Jefferies sucks, no way Toronto wants him.

3. The biggest flaw: you can't trade Scola to Toronto unless he wants to go there. Forget about Scola going to that mess in Toronto.

Switch Hill for Scola then. If Bosh decides he wants to come to Houston Toronto will have to accept what they can get or get nothing. That being said two picks, two expiring serviceable players, and a good young PF in Hill is more than fair. as I said before who will they get a better deal from?

[Mel_13]

Switch Hill for Scola then. If Bosh decides he wants to come to Houston Toronto will have to accept what they can get or get nothing. That being said two picks, two expiring serviceable players, and a good young PF in Hill is more than fair. as I said before who will they get a better deal from?

This is the great fallacy in your reasoning. Bosh has no leverage to force a S&T to Houston. Houston can only offer him the MLE. Toronto will just laugh if he says "deal with Houston or I'll take the MLE". Toronto only deals with Houston if they want what Houston has to offer. Otherwise, they tell Bosh to forget it. They know that there's no way he's signing for the MLE.

Compare that with a team with cap space like Chicago or New York. If Bosh wants to go there, Toronto has to do a S&T for the simple reason that it would be stupid not to. Bosh could call their bluff and take 5yr/96M instead of the 6yr/126M he would get in a S&T. Toronto can get a player like Lee or Deng in that case. Even if they can't agree on a player, they could trade him for a second round pick and a 17M trade exception. They would then have one year to turn that TE into a player/players from one or more of the other 28 teams in the league.

Houston, like San Antonio, has no chance at Bosh because they don't have the pieces to get Toronto's attention.

[200 miles]

He will be a Chicago Bull.

[djohn2oo8]

This is the great fallacy in your reasoning. Bosh has no leverage to force a S&T to Houston. Houston can only offer him the MLE. Toronto will just laugh if he says "deal with Houston or I'll take the MLE". Toronto only deals with Houston if they want what Houston has to offer. Otherwise, they tell Bosh to forget it. They know that there's no way he's signing for the MLE.

Compare that with a team with cap space like Chicago or New York. If Bosh wants to go there, Toronto has to do a S&T for the simple reason that it would be stupid not to. Bosh could call their bluff and take 5yr/96M instead of the 6yr/126M he would get in a S&T. Toronto can get a player like Lee or Deng in that case. Even if they can't agree on a player, they could trade him for a second round pick and a 17M trade exception. They would then have one year to turn that TE into a player/players from one or more of the other 28 teams in the league.

Houston, like San Antonio, has no chance at Bosh because they don't have the pieces to get Toronto's attention.

Toronto originally wanted Brooks Scola and Battier for Bosh. So the pieces are still there, I would just subs ute someone else for Brooks

[Mel_13]

Toronto originally wanted Brooks Scola and Battier for Bosh. So the pieces are still there, I would just subs ute someone else for Brooks

Scola won't go to Toronto. It's a non-starter.

[JustBlaze]

Perhaps New Jersey? Harris + Lopez + Bosh, that's at least a playoff team in the East.

[timvpimp]

Perhaps New Jersey? Harris + Lopez + Bosh, that's at least a playoff team in the East.

[The Franchise]

This is the great fallacy in your reasoning. Bosh has no leverage to force a S&T to Houston. Houston can only offer him the MLE. Toronto will just laugh if he says "deal with Houston or I'll take the MLE". Toronto only deals with Houston if they want what Houston has to offer. Otherwise, they tell Bosh to forget it. They know that there's no way he's signing for the MLE.

Compare that with a team with cap space like Chicago or New York. If Bosh wants to go there, Toronto has to do a S&T for the simple reason that it would be stupid not to. Bosh could call their bluff and take 5yr/96M instead of the 6yr/126M he would get in a S&T. Toronto can get a player like Lee or Deng in that case. Even if they can't agree on a player, they could trade him for a second round pick and a 17M trade exception. They would then have one year to turn that TE into a player/players from one or more of the other 28 teams in the league.

Houston, like San Antonio, has no chance at Bosh because they don't have the pieces to get Toronto's attention.

I have a few question to ask you. If you are the GM of Toronto, and Bosh says I want to go to Houston, do you tell him no and risk getting nothing in return? Let's say they tell him no and he can't go to his first choice. He still has the option to go to any team with cap space willing to pay him. The only difference is now, because he wasn't accomodated, he feels slighted by your organization. Do you think he tries to help the organization that just told him no to his chosen destination? Now let's go with your scenario and say Bosh wants to got to NY or Chicago. Why would Toronto want to do this deal? Why would the Raptors want Deng on his horrible contract? Does he make them any better? No. Does Lee? No. Plus they would both keep the team strapped for cash finacially until at least 2015.

The best case you have given is a 17M trade exception and a second round pick. This isn't too bad, but is it better than 14M expiring, a 1st and 2nd round pick, and a young, athletic, shotblocking PF? Which gives you more flexiblity to rebuild quicker? The truth is Bosh has all the leverage in any negotiations with Toronto. All they have to decide is if they want to get something out of it or not. I really doubt they say no to that package if he chooses Houston.

[Mel_13]

I have a few question to ask you. If you are the GM of Toronto, and Bosh says I want to go to Houston, do you tell him no and risk getting nothing in return? Let's say they tell him no and he can't go to his first choice. He still has the option to go to any team with cap space willing to pay him. The only difference is now, because he wasn't accomodated, he feels slighted by your organization. Do you think he tries to help the organization that just told him no to his chosen destination? Now let's go with your scenario and say Bosh wants to got to NY or Chicago. Why would Toronto want to do this deal? Why would the Raptors want Deng on his horrible contract? Does he make them any better? No. Does Lee? No. Plus they would both keep the team strapped for cash finacially until at least 2015.

The best case you have given is a 17M trade exception and a second round pick. This isn't too bad, but is it better than 14M expiring, a 1st and 2nd round pick, and a young, athletic, shotblocking PF? Which gives you more flexiblity to rebuild quicker? The truth is Bosh has all the leverage in any negotiations with Toronto. All they have to decide is if they want to get something out of it or not. I really doubt they say no to that package if he chooses Houston.

I don't see the risk for Toronto. Let's say Bosh feels slighted when Toronto doesn't accommodate his desire to go to Houston. So now he goes to Chicago, NY or Miami. Is he really going to forgo the extra 30M that he can get with a S&T just to get back at Toronto? I don't see that as likely.

On your next point, why would Toronto want expiring contracts? They don't need them to meet minimum payroll or roster requirements. They would be much better off getting some combination of picks and/or players on rookie deals plus a large TE. The deal you propose from Houston nets them nothing more than Hill, a second rounder, and a first rounder that may not even be a low lottery pick. Plus they have to pay 14M for players that don't help them in any way. Toronto doesn't have to settle for that. I do believe a second rounder and a 17M TE trumps that. It gives Toronto tremendous flexibility to identify a player/players on a financially weak team and they have 365 days to use it.

As to leverage. Bosh has great leverage if he chooses a team with cap space. He has almost no leverage if he chooses a team without cap space. You may believe otherwise and that's fine.

We'll see in July.

[Double-Up]

Not sure I want him in Dallas....he always has been over-rated to me

Go yourself.

[ploto]

Don't be shocked if he stays in Toronto.

[Mel_13]

Don't be shocked if he stays in Toronto.

I'll be shocked.

That franchise, in terms of the ability to compete at a high level, is a disaster. Too many massively overpaid players will hinder their ability to improve for years to come. Bosh will go someplace with better prospects for success and he'll have plenty of options to choose from.

[The Franchise]

Don't be shocked if he stays in Toronto.

[mogrovejo]

I don't see the risk for Toronto. Let's say Bosh feels slighted when Toronto doesn't accommodate his desire to go to Houston. So now he goes to Chicago, NY or Miami. Is he really going to forgo the extra 30M that he can get with a S&T just to get back at Toronto? I don't see that as likely.

(...)

As to leverage. Bosh has great leverage if he chooses a team with cap space. He has almost no leverage if he chooses a team without cap space. You may believe otherwise and that's fine.

That's contradictory. Either Bosh has leverage due to the existence of several teams able to offer him a max contract or he doesn't. That leverage belongs to Bosh. He doesn't need to say "I want to go to Texas and I really don't want to go to the Nets, the Knicks, the Heat, the Bulls, the Clippers, etc., so if we cant' work out a S&T with Houston I'll re-sign here". That becomes more of an issue if there's only 1 team in the league with enough cap room to sign the player; if there are 4 or 5 that reasoning doesn't apply.

As for what Toronto may prefer, most teams in this situation prefer the TPE & picks/cheap promising players. However, Toronto is a special case with all the money they have committed long term and the kind of players they have in the roster. They can't create cap room; the TPE won't have much value in a year like the next one. They may very well prefer a combination of players+picks.

[mogrovejo]

Don't be shocked if he stays in Toronto.

I wouldn't, but I think it's unlikely at this point.

[Kai]

This is the great fallacy in your reasoning. Bosh has no leverage to force a S&T to Houston. Houston can only offer him the MLE. Toronto will just laugh if he says "deal with Houston or I'll take the MLE". Toronto only deals with Houston if they want what Houston has to offer. Otherwise, they tell Bosh to forget it. They know that there's no way he's signing for the MLE.

Compare that with a team with cap space like Chicago or New York. If Bosh wants to go there, Toronto has to do a S&T for the simple reason that it would be stupid not to. Bosh could call their bluff and take 5yr/96M instead of the 6yr/126M he would get in a S&T. Toronto can get a player like Lee or Deng in that case. Even if they can't agree on a player, they could trade him for a second round pick and a 17M trade exception. They would then have one year to turn that TE into a player/players from one or more of the other 28 teams in the league.

Houston, like San Antonio, has no chance at Bosh because they don't have the pieces to get Toronto's attention.

I wouldn't be so quick to say Houston doesn't have the pieces. They would have to take back salaries, yes, but we have expirings in Battier and Jeffries that they would only have to deal with for a year. We could possiblye make that worth their while with our collection of draft picks, particularly New York's. While sending Bosh away (ensuring he doesn't go to the Knicks) for NY's picks, they are directly hurting the Knicks' chances of getting a better record, ergo a better draft pick. We have promising young players in Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger, Ariza, and I think we might even be willing to part with Brooks.

Don't write off Scola in a deal, as completely unreasonable as that sounds. We might be willing to pay him more to send him off to make the salaries work. I wouldn't think he would turn down extra money.

[Mel_13]

That's contradictory.

Not at all.

Simply stated, Bosh has greater leverage to force a S&T to a team that has sufficient cap space than he does to a team that doesn't.

[Mel_13]

I wouldn't be so quick to say Houston doesn't have the pieces. They would have to take back salaries, yes, but we have expirings in Battier and Jeffries that they would only have to deal with for a year. We could possiblye make that worth their while with our collection of draft picks, particularly New York's. While sending Bosh away (ensuring he doesn't go to the Knicks) for NY's picks, they are directly hurting the Knicks' chances of getting a better record, ergo a better draft pick. We have promising young players in Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger, Ariza, and I think we might even be willing to part with Brooks.

Don't write off Scola in a deal, as completely unreasonable as that sounds. We might be willing to pay him more to send him off to make the salaries work. I wouldn't think he would turn down extra money.

We'll find out in July.

I don't believe Houston has any realistic chance. I believe he winds up on a team with cap space.

I do write off the possibility of Scola going to Toronto. You've watched the guy play for 3 years. A guy with that much heart isn't voluntarily signing up to join that mess in Toronto.