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I'd rather see Shaq win it than a one way player. Steve Nash is gasoline on any opposing teams offensive fire.
no way
phoenix plays better D than that dallas team and they have more toughness inside and they are the best rebounding team in the NBA. they aren't even close.
I'd rather see Shaq win it than a one way player. Steve Nash is gasoline on any opposing teams offensive fire.
The playoffs have a way of exposing fraud MVP's., that's all.
Don't give a crap what Phoenix's record was w or w/o Nash - just because he's vital to the system they play doesn't make him an MVP.
Check out the Spurs record in the few games Bowen has missed - it's pretty damn startling and revealing, does that make him an MVP.
Swap Wade & Nash - are the Heat any better? Are the Suns that much worse? NOW swap Shaq and Amare, what happens?
In a Spurs - Suns series, if Nash goes out, do you completely discount the Suns? I sure as don't. If Tim goes out, are the Spurs even getting by Memphis?
Let's start a list of players the Suns would trade Nash for (bet at least 1 point guard might come up) - now lets do the same with the Heat with O'Neal and the Spurs w/Duncan - those lists are pretty damned short - and not a single power forward or Center would be listed.
Nash is the beneficiary of right place/right time. Kidd, Bibby, possibly Miller, would have had similar success w/that roster at that time. They simply needed a true point guard to get those horses the ball ANY TRUE POINT GUARD!!!
Finally, let's look at where the teams the top candidates came FROM last year are at right now. The Lakers, who received quite a bit of talent in return for Shaq, AND who were in the FINALS last year are at home licking their wounds. The Mavericks, who received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for Nash are better than last season.
Yeah, Nash is the MVP.
I wouldn't even call Nash the MVP of the Suns. Give it to Amare.
If a team with the three point champion and two all-stars is dog without their point guard then the system is to blame, it doesn't make the point guard that's considered a defensive liability the best player in the league. Statistically, Nash isn't even having his best year. He's playing on a team that won 2 more games than the '03 Mavs did, with less talent, and I don't remember him being an MVP candidate then.
Leaving aside records and where they are in the playoffs, the real MVP, for an NBA team, is Gilbert Arenas of the Wizards. Arenas is going to make a name for himself very soon, and the Wizards are going to rule the East once Shaq gains his 60 poinds back and Larry moves on, as he surely will. He is as good a # 1 as Nash (for assists), and can score better than any #2 in the league.
Next, I would give Ben Wallace some consideration. He is the top defensive player in the league, thus he gets no credit for being a glamour boy.
Without the athleticism of a Marion and the brutal in-your-face dunks by an Amare Stoudamire, Nash would half as effective as he is. He is a better shooting guard, but too small. He is a true starting guard for an NBA team, and his supporting cast makes him a viable MVP candidate.
Good argument for Arenas, but potential isn't a valid argument, although he deserves at least as much credit for his team's turnaround as Nash does IMO. Allen Iverson destroys Arenas in virtually every statistical category.
Ben Wallace is a one dimensional player. The same reason Nash shouldn't be MVP.
how is wallace dimensional playe? he rebounds, plays defense, blocks shots, gets steals and gives them around 10 a game
that is not one dimensional
You are right, but just for the purpose of this conversation, here's my rationale:
Offense - Dimension
Defense - Dimension
Play defense only - 1 dimensional, not worthy of MVP - Wallace
Play offense only - 1 dimensional, not worthy of MVP - Nash
Play defense only, but play it extremely well - Defensive player of the year - Wallace
Play offense only, but play it with other guys who play it extremely well - media sweetheart and overrated MVP candidate - Nash
i cant recall a past mvp who was as ty on defense as nash
i guess his 16 ppg and 11 apg were so much that voters ignored his play for half of the game?
Hey...we've seen what happens when an MVP of a 62 game winner on a team that plays strong offense but lackadaisacal defense runs into another candidate in the WCF.
hey 101A...I have been reading your posts on the Sonics board...you are tearin it up in there bro...
Wasn't Amare with the Suns last year? So, where were the Suns? Did Amare improve that much?
Criteria for being MVP:
Has to be on a topped ranked team (that discounts the Wizards)
Has to have played most of the Season.
Both Shaq and Tim missed significant time.
I can see Wade getting it, but I guess top seed in the West beats top seed in the East.
Question: If Spurs became Number 1, do you think Manu would've gotten MVP?!?
(That would be nice. Maybe Manu will get MVP of the Finals. I think there's a case that he was the best player for the Spurs in the WHOLE Nuggets series).
You are taking Tim for granted. His mere presence makes him MVP of any series. Same thing happens with Shaq. Guys like that are so rare that having 1 simply tilts the entire game/series/season in your favor. When 20+ and 10+ (while being doubled all the damn time) have crappy talent around them they make the playoffs, when they have mediocre talent they contend (see Robinson, David), and when they have good talent around them they win rings.
Quick we're picking sides in a game; Tim, Shaq, & Nash are there - who YOU picking first. I tell you who you're not...
Thanks,
Wish I could get my troll post count added here...
I think it would be cool if Nash won it and all.
However, I am not even sure Nash is the MVP on his own team much less the league.
Nash's most valuable contribution to the Suns is his leadership and his pass first at ude. It has tunred the Suns in one of the most unselfish teams I can remember.
Much of the Suns success is due to their chemistry on the floor and in the lockeroom. I think Nash had as much to do with that as anybody. His basketball skills on offense and defense are secondary.
He is not the Suns best player but he is the leader of the team with the best record.
I guess if that's the definition of MVP...fine.
Why didn't Mario Ellie win in '99 then?
I have a hard time giving the MVP to someone who plays with 2 guys scoring 20 and 4 guys scoring over 15pts a game.
Shaq plays with one person who scores over 15pts a game...Dwayne Wade.
Duncan plays with 2 guys that score over 15, Parker & Manu.
Nash plays with 4 guys that score over 15pts.
Wade was even more deserving of the MVP.
His efficiency rating was higher, he was in the top 10 of more statistical catagories.
Also, Nash missed more games than Wade.
It's complete rubbish.
I think the MVP has officially taken a big step backwards. This is ridiculous. Every MVP winner is pretty much a shoe in the Hall of Fame.
Now, are you going to put Steve Nash in the Hall of Fame???
I'd rather the award go to Shaq. Honestly, without Shaq, the Heat would be worse off than the Suns would be without Nash...that's a fact.
Nash is a better guy personally than Shaq, but the MVP should be about team impact. And I'm sorry, when you're playing with 2 guys scoring 20pts a game and 4 that average over 15pts a game besides yourself, it's very hard to accurately gauge the huge impact.
The only reason why Nash's importance is amplified is because the Suns lack of depth.
Someone call 911 cause Shaq and/or Wade got robbed.
i didn't start the thread ducks.
I don't know what the definition of MVP is.
Ask the NBA marketing machine, they probably have the answer.
I always thought it was the player that was most valuable to his team. Others seem to think that it is the most valuable player to the league.
No matter who they pick I will not complain because it doesn't really matter to me.
yeah too bad nash is not the most vaulable to his team, amare is. all nash can do is run high scoring teams, he's useless otherwise.
cut that crap
nash is by far the most important player on his team
True Stoudemire draws the defense and allows other Suns to get open, but an argument could be made that Marion is the Suns MVP.
The one game he missed we lost by 20.
Wade has played great this year, but he's this year's Kobe/Penny. I'm done heaping praise upon Shaq's teammates, because there's no doubt in my mind that Shaq's influence makes his teammates better. He immediately made a weak playoff team in the east that nobody fears into one of the powers of the league, a year after taking the Lakers to the finals.
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