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WHAT DOES JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
REALLY ? HE MADE 95 OUT OF 100 IN PRACTICE THAT MORNING HE MISSED 5 OUT OF 7 DURING THE GAME
WHAT DOES JESUS MOTHER F'N CHRIST HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
Also, who gives a about practice? If say your wife, or your mom or dad, whoever, were having open heart surgery and the doctor ed up and killed them, would you be happy with the doc saying "well, I aced my final back in college, my bad."
You don't win championships for practice. You don't get points in the game for what you hit in practice.
Practice? We're talking about practice. Not a game. Practice.
at first glance it looked like Iverson was wearing an Arby's hat
Pounding the rock isn't the team motto without reason. It means keep chipping away at the little things, and the big things will eventually give way.
Tony Parker has pounded the rock for four years now. He's improved his defense. He added the teardrop. He's learned to balance scoring and running the offense.
No one is saying Tony Parker is a ty player because he can't hit free throws (well, I guess some people are saying that, but they're morons). The point is, pound the rock. Take care of the little things. Being a better freethrow shooter is TP's next section of rock to work. Running plays at the end of quarters is a jagged little chunk for Tony to whack at as well.
Free throw shooting is all about consistency. Hence, it's hard to consistently move your tongue, hand, elbow the same everytime. Now hitting 95 out of 100 is someone getting hot and that happens with Tony, if he's hot from the line he doesn't miss, but he's not consistent.
Nevertheless, your point about there not being a perfect basketball player is true. They all have weaknesses, and Tony is one where his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.
Wrong question. You should have been worrying about when to quit.
Ummm.... no. I'm not. I acknowledged that free throw shooting is not one of the Spurs' strong suits. But, fortunately, the teams they are most likely to meet from here on out are either little better, or worse. I also made the point that, in the playoffs, the Spurs have stepped up that aspect of their game.
Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.
Right... how stupid of me, comparing the Spurs strengths and weaknesses to their opponents. It's all so obvious to me now that you put it to me that way. The Spurs compete in a vacuum, and only what they do on the court matters. It's those stupid coaches and analysts, always talking about match-ups with other teams. But it's my fault for being stupid enough to listen to them. Of course, I'm also way too stupid to ever use the word "crystallize" in a sentence.
(Rule of thumb: argue anything you want to, but don't call me stupid.)
Well, I feel better now. At least I'm not the only one who is stupid. The players are just too stupid to figure out that they should be trying to be as good as possible. And the coaches and owners are too stupid to require them to practice shooting free throws, so that they can automatically be better than everyone else. I mean... that's it, right? You just have to be smart enough to get better at everything than everyone else, and you win? Brilliant!
(Did I mention the "Don't call me stupid" part?)
And now, my personal favorites:
How the can you put those two sentences right next to each other in the same post? Seriously. I know I'm stupid, but it seems to me that if the other team "sucks at FTs like us", that would be like, you know... better than if they were really good at shooting FTs.
So here is my question for you: If I say something about how Phoenix doesn't play defense, am I
a) smart for noticing something that the Spurs do better than the other guys, or
b) stupid for saying "look what other people are doing"?
See, I'm to stupid to understand the rules here.
(I should probably mention that I object to being called stupid.)
Tony's sorta an enigma to me. I love him, I hate him...I just can't decide. Mebbe we should just be freinds.
Seriously, Tony's biggest problem ain't his free throws. It's his inconsistency. I've seen him where he can't miss a FT, then the exact opposite. That goes for his entire game.
I have to remind myself...this guy's like 22, right? Could explain a lot.
As far as being tired and losing your legs. C'mon...nobody runs around more than Manu, it doesn't affect his FT shooting %. And everyone else in the league runs around too. A starting point guard on a championship team should no way be hitting in the low 60's, percentage-wise. Tired legs or otherwise... , most high-school guards hit better.
I predict tho, that Tony and TD will step up in their FT shooting during these playoffs. Just because they're gonna get a lotta damn practice at it. If I were Seattle, I'd make damn sure of it.
I love Tony, except when I hate him. I don't imagine Tony is doing anything for Pop's hairline either.
Spurs in 5
I want to be very clear about what I said earlier:
I said that some of the bricks you see players toss in 4th quarters are due to tired legs. Not just Spurs players, but around the league. I think that most people would agree that players tend to shoot better with fresh legs, so I don't think there is anything too controversial about that particular statement.
I also said that Duncan spends the entire night with some huge guy (or two) leaning on him. And I think that has the same effect that it does on a professional boxer - it wears on his legs. Some nights you can see it more than others. I don't think there would be too much debate over that statement, either.
Now, as to whether the Spurs defensive efforts contribute to fatigue near the end of games, I definitely don't have any evidence. I believe that in order to play really good defense without committing a lot of fouls, a player has to have very good footwork. And I also think that there is a difference between running up and down the court, and bodying-up on defense.
I don't think it is out of the question that the game could be more tiring for a player who is getting leaned on all night, or for one who is playing very aggressive defense. My real point was that anything that affects the physical aspect of shooting free throws will affect the mental aspect as well. For most mere mortals, missed shots lower self-confidence; and that, in turn, causes more missed shots. If you believe that fatigue contributes at all, it is probably reasonable to assume that the Spurs might be more susceptible. I think there is a connection, but I don't have anything but my opinion to back that up. But think back on how many times you can remember the announcers talking about how the Spurs (as a group, or some individual player) were shooting some great percentage from the line, right up until the fourth quarter.
As for Manu's free throw shooting...
I can't say that I have hard proof, SouthernFried. But if you look at the below-average free throw shooting nights that Manu has had, it seems to me that most of them were either against tough teams where he had to defend extra hard, or on the second night of back-to-backs.
I also can't say for sure that he misses more of his free throws later in games, but it seems that way to me. He only missed 88 FT's in 74 games, but I remember him missing quite a few in 4th quarters, and I remember him missing several Technical FTs in the latter parts of games. That's pretty subjective, I know.
I feel pretty sure that the Spurs' players recognize that free throws are really important. I know they practice shooting them. And too many of the Spurs are tough, smart athletes for me to believe that they crack under pressure or allow their minds to wander that often. So you have to wonder what else it could be.
GSH...with all due respect, it's not unique to the Spurs. I don't think the Spurs are more prone to fatigue and tired legs than any other team in the NBA. Manu may shoot less % in the 4th, or he may not...he still shoots mid-80% consistently for the year. He runs just as much, or more than Tony, as do most guards in the NBA who shoot better than Tony (which I think is about everyone?)
I'm sure the Spurs coaching staff works hard on FT's. They'd be idiots not too. The fact that Parker shot like 98 outta 100 shows he's workin' on it. The fact that he can't do it in a game shows something else. What that something else is, I don't know.
In my experience, FT shooting comes down to one thing. Repe ion. Tired or not.
If Tony is shooting 100 FT's a day, he should shoot 1,000 a day. Every day. That is the only way I know how to increase FT%, and it has worked every time I've tried it.
If it's a mental thing...well, repe ion can help that too.
Again, I have to keep remembering...Tony is only like 22. That is amazing. But, that does tend to support the mental aspects of his FT shooting.
Imho, Tony should be shooting 500 FTs when he wakes up. 500 FT's at lunch, and a 500 FT's before he gets tucked in. It will become so automatic for him, his mind wont be able to interfere, his muscle memory will override it. Ya, it'll take an hour and a half each time he does this...but, for several million a year, methinks that's not too much a sacrifice.
Last edited by SouthernFried; 05-07-2005 at 04:19 AM.
The problem is the Clutch FT
Tony have better % in the beggining than in the finish
if you do not care about practice why practice them
practice does improve them
Hahahhahaha Waly!!! That Signature Kills Me!! Hahahaha
And Reggie is most likely going to make two free throws at the end of a game. Parker is another story.Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.
You can spin it any way you want to, but teams will foul the Spurs at the end of close games. Teams will try to exploit the Spurs' weaknesses in the closing moments. And Tony is the ballhandler. He's also perhaps the worst free throw shooter among the players that regularly finish games. Tony will get fouled at the end of close games. And he'll make less free throws than many other point guard will in that situation.
It's the playoffs. Many games are going to be close. And the difference between going to the finals and going fishing can be a free throw converted or missed.
Parker has shown an inability to make free throws consistently at the end of games. Are you disagreeing with that? If you're not, the only conclusion is that he's a liability in those specific cir stances. If he's going to cost the Spurs 'free' points in important situations, he could cost them games. It's really that simple.
Those referring to Tony as an offensive liability are generally speaking of him being that at the end of close games only. It doesn't matter one bit how well your team free throw percentage compares to other teams if your primary ballhandler is a poor free throw shooter and he often has the ball in his hands at the end of games. Team free throw percentage simply doesn't factor in when you're talking about that specific situation.First of all, I never said it was good for Parker to be shooting .650 from the line. I responded to the comment that Tony is an offensive liability. You don't like my stats? How about this one? Who are the four best teams in the playoffs this year? Most people would say the Spurs, Suns, Pistons, and Heat. Everybody knows the Spurs can't shoot free throws. If they don't win the championship this year, they are probably going to lose it at the free throw line, right? Just how much better are the other three teams at shooting free throws? This is how the "big four" shot FT's in the regular season, and how they ranked in the league:
Team FT% Rank (out of 30 teams)
Heat .672 30
Spurs .724 26
Pistons .739 23
Suns .748 22
Yeah, but things change in the post-season don't they? I mean, the Spurs are probably a lot worse than those other "good" teams, now that the playoffs are here, right? So how do the "big four" stack up on FT% in the playoffs so far?
Team FT% Rank (out of 16 teams)
Heat .655 16
Suns .742 11
Spurs .755 8
Pistons .813 2
Kinda hard to believe, huh? A piss-poor, mentally-weak group like the Spurs, and still shooting free throws better than half the teams in the playoffs. I guess if it wasn't that raggedy-assed Tony Parker holding down their percentage, it would be somebody else, huh?
A point is indeed a point, but what happens at the beginning of games is different than what happens at the end of games. The Spurs can play solid and make free throws for 42 minutes, but if they're playing good teams, they can still be involved in close games. And the Spurs are more likely to get fouled at the end of games. The fouls in the closing moments of the fourth quarter are often intentional. The way in which teams go about committing fouls is simply different at different moments in the game. And a team's ability make free throws down the stretch can change an opponent's strategy. So it's not really the same.I know it sucks to see guys miss free throws down the stretch. But it's a 48-minute game, and the ones at the end count the same 1 point as the ones at the beginning. The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game.
You've done a good job of showing that teams can win even if they have a poor team free throw percentage. But you haven't really done anything to address the real point: Tony is likely to miss some free throws at the end of games, and missing those free throws could cost the Spurs a win.
At the beginning, a poor free throw shooter isn't as much of a liability. At the end, an ability to shoot free throws becomes much more important. If a player can't make most of his free throws at the end of a close game, he's a liability in that specific cir stance. That's the point you have to counter, and it's one that you're going to have a very difficult time with.
The difference is Reggie is about a 90% FT shooter, even in the clutch. He's won countless games, even in the playoffs, at the FT line.Newsflash: if a team's gonna get beat for a bucket by Reggie Miller late in the game, they're going to foul him. Even Reggie misses one every now and then, and a good defensive team doesn't give up easy buckets if they can possibly help it.
Parker shoots about 60% on his FTs. He's a great offensive player for a possible 44 of 48 minutes, but the last 4 when it really counts he's a liability.
Remember hack-a-Tim, hack-a-Bowen? It's coming for Parker if he keeps bricking them.
The problem is, historically in the playoffs the Spurs have had all kinds of problems with being offensively "solid and consistent" in fourth quarters.The Spurs win by being solid and consistent throughout the game.
The other problem is, the other legit contenders (Phoenix, Miami, Detroit) are just as solid and consistent as we are. So again, it's going to come down to the little things, like free throws. And anyone who has watched the Spurs shoot 50% as a team for a game should be worried about that.
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