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And lol to the guy who said Bynum could average 20 and 10, stupid dumb .
Shaq with anybody back in his dominant prime beats any frontcourt in the past 15 years. That guy was such a beast and there was no one to stop him during that stretch.
And lol to the guy who said Bynum could average 20 and 10, stupid dumb .
This especially had no chance with Kidd as the point guard. Harris choked but Kidd plainly just isn't good enough.
It's not Kidd's fault. Your top 8 guys can be stuffed into a giant sized burlap sack. Close your eyes, stick you hand in and it don't matter who you pick out of there. You have no blue chippers on your entire team. And what's more: the rest of the NBA knows it.
everyone but cuban
Kidd is totally useless in the halfcourt. Playoff basketball is how well you do in the halfcourt. Kidd is a lazy in halfcourt and has no offensive moves and it hurts the team.
Lamar Odom has never averaged more than 17 points in a season, and has only put up 10 boards twice. Andrew Bynum is capable of averaging 20 and 10 for a month, but not a season (yet). You are grossly overrating these two players. Gasol hasn't even done 20/10 in his career (though he came pretty close in 06-07). You're trivializing how hard it is for a player to put up 20/10. Odom has no chance of ever approaching that level now that he's on the downside of his career; even in his prime, he was never anywhere near it. Bynum could possibly get there if he could stay healthy, but we're talking about now and he's still pretty inconsistent. Another thing about Odom; he has no basketball IQ. For years any time you saw someone hit a game-winner against the Lakers, it was almost a given that it was Odom's man draining an open shot. There's a reason Lakers fans called him Odumb before Gasol came in to pacify them.
The 00-02 Lakers frontline was better
You're selling Shaq short. From 00-02 he was as tough a cover as Jordan in his prime, and in 00 and 01 he played pretty amazing defense. Forget 20/10, Shaq could give you production in the neighborhood of 30/10 with teams throwing constant doubles and triples at him. That Shaq is head and shoulders over any single player on the list (even Duncan, and especially since we're considering late 90s Duncan and not 02-04 Duncan, though 00-02 Shaq is still significantly better than 02-04 Duncan also); I'd take him over the combination of Bynum and Gasol and not think twice about it. As for the other two, they were role players, but they were smart role players who knew how to complement Shaq. Horry was a very underrated defender who could guard three positions. Fox was a of a defensive player before he got old and hit a rapid decline in 02. He single-handedly shut down the Spurs shooters in the 01 WCF and was a very underrated part of the sweep. That 01 Spurs team was murdering everyone else from the 3-point line, but Fox was amazing at rotating to shooters, crowding them, and making them take tough shots. He also had a dirty streak like Bowen, Rodman, Artest, etc. that all le contenders needed before the NBA started making the playoffs soft in the middle of the 2000s.
The 07-08 Celtics frontline was better
Obviously I can't extend it beyond that season, since Garnett became a shadow of himself after screwing up his knee in 08-09. That season though, Garnett was playing amazing defense, and you have to remember what he did to Gasol in the Finals. Perkins put up pretty pedestrian numbers, but I thought he set some of the best screens in the league and his physical play was an underrated part of that 08 le. As for Pierce, he's a sure-fire Hall of Famer who has always been a big game player, and he did a lot to harass Kobe into an awful series on top of his stellar offensive play.
The 01 through 03 Kings frontline
This one I think I'll withdraw, since Stojakovic is a once the schedule gets past February and Divac's numbers weren't as good as I remembered them. Still, Webber is someone it seems like everyone forgot about. Before the knee injury in the 03 WCSF, he was a ridiculous athlete who had great range on his jumpshot, and he was a 20/10 player his entire time in Sacramento. He was pretty soft defensively, but still pretty solid on the glass, and he and Divac trail only Sabonis, Bird, and maybe Walton among frontcourt players I have seen when it comes to creativity in making passes to find easy shots for teammates. I think Webber gets too much crap form the media (like Nowitzki) for not being able to win the big one. He'll never live down leaving Horry the same way that free throw in game 3 of the Finals will always haunt Dirk's legacy. In hindsight though, I'll give you that one.
Last edited by baseline bum; 05-01-2010 at 03:11 PM.
With Kidd and Dampier on the mavs you are basically playing 3 on 5.
It's a Dallas writer-obviously had nothing better to write about. The Old pouring salt in wound technique.
Gotta love it if you're a Spur fan or a Mav hater considering all the squawking the Mav fans have been doing all season long.
yep, not to mention marion then it becomes 2 on 5. when 3 of your best 7 players are offensively re ed, you're going to have problems.
i said CAPABLE. anyone who thinks that those three guys dont have the ability to do so, is ing stupid. just the same way spurs fans always say parker could be a 25 and 8 guy if he had his own team, or that ginobili could average 25 5 and 5 if he had his own team, it doesnt mean its the smartest or best ing idea, and if they did, the teams would probably suck ass because they simply arent good enough. bynum, gasol, and odom have all shown an ability throughout their careers to put up monster numbers if they have the opportunities. however (with maybe the exception of that crybaby got Bynum), they also know that their teams are better off when they dont take all those opportunities away from others.
Bynum, Pau, and Odom are all INCREDIBLY talented and gifted players. Pau is arguably the most skilled big-man in the game today (with the exception of Timmy although Timmy is getting old). Bynum is (i hate saying it) the most complete center in the NBA. you can run a post-up offense through him (which you cant do with Howard because he has a massive skill-set that consists of 2 moves and a load of putbacks off offensive boards), he rebounds well on both ends, runs the floor well, plays solid physical defense, blocks shots, clogs the lane, sets good picks, has good hands, finishes well around the rim. the thing about Bynum, is that while hes not exceptionally great at anything, hes pretty good at everything. And Odom is probably one of the 5 most gifted players in NBA history. There is NOTHING the guy can't do, and hes also a freakish athlete. He just never really cared enough to consistently play hard, but has definitely shown he can win a game for a team, and be a superstar any given night.
What makes these three special, is that while all the other front-lines had glaring holes, this one really doesnt. Their biggest hole is mental, as to whether or not they feel like showing up. But they are by far the most balanced front-line out of any of those that you listed, in that all THREE of them have shown they are capable of dominating a game at both ends, while all the other lineups had players who had holes in their game (Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_L uck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ cant roast a team on offense consistently, same for Fox and Horry, Perkins is very mediocre and cant dominate on either end, Peja is ing horrible on defense, etc...)
The three may not be GREATER than all those lineups, but there is a difference between GREATNESS and how good they are capable of being. When they want to, this Laker front-line can be as good as any front line in NBA history. And if they end up winning another le or two together, they probably will be considered the greatest front-line ever. But if you are comparing their greatness, then yes, I will concede that they are not greater than most of those other frontcourts (except the Kings because they never won )
lol stench
lol kings have a championship in their franchise
lol perennial losers
lol would know about not ever winning
yeah you would take offense to that, seeing as your real name is atxrocker and you're a king fan. hey man, why don't you post under that name anymore?
and the rochester royals won a le back in the early 50's, not the sacramento kings you pathetic straw grasping
I understood your point perfectly. Only Gasol is capable of 20/10.
How does Odom have the capability to put up 20/10? He was the #1 man in Miami had plenty of opportunities with the Clippers and didn't even come close with either team. Then he had tons of opportunities on the Lakers to be that kind of player when he had Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown rounding out 3/5 of the Lakers starting lineup, and didn't do it there either. The closest he ever came was the year in Miami where he was a #1 option and put up 17.1 and 9.7 on a team with no one else who could grab a board other than Brian Grant on his last legs. He's not even that Odom anymore.
Bynum clearly doesn't have the ability to be a 20/10 player. He had a monster start to the season, everyone jumped on his , and then his game hit a brick wall. There's a big difference from being able to get 20/10 in a month and being able to do it for a season. There's no way Bynum is capable of that.
And Ginobili would never put up 25 a game over a full season on any team at any point of his career; he could never play the kind of minutes necessary to put up those numbers.
mavs---not nearly good enough to win a le...
water is wet
the sky is blue
balls itch
ok
s are perky and etc.
Rick Carlisle got outcoached badly. He failed on a number of subs ution/rotation decisions. He made Popovich look like a genius, really. Pop had RC reeling most of the series.
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