To be fair to mogrovejo he's one of the few Boston fans who never lost faith.
I doubt a Kobe fanboy like you would think the Celtics were the favourites before the series.
Still, how do you explain Kobe's performance in game 4 vs. OKC? We don't need to go further than that. Did he quit as well? Or he just isn't that good? Because he was worse in that game, and in game 1, than LeBron yesterday. And again, LeBron has been spectacular this series.
Pathetic. No wonder this guy still believes Kobe is the best player in the game. He live in an alternative reality.
Tell us, Rsx, you really love that guy, don't you?
I don't have faith. I always thought the Cs were the 3rd best team in the league but good enough to beat Cleveland and Orlando, because sometimes the best team doesn't win. Nothing changed. Being a Celtics fan has nothing to do with this.
Heh, I guess we just differ in views and opinions. I never really saw Pierce as the best player in the 2008 NBA finals. I think his "heroic" play in Game 2(?) made enough headlines to secure his position in that series, nevertheless I think Pierce actually played quite poorly for a Finals MVP in comparison to its last 10 winners.
Wait, going 5-10 in game 4 vs OKC is worse than what LeBron did last night? I'm not sure how that figures into this argument?
You're an idiot. Always has been when it comes to anything that relates to Kobe related topics. You can't even keep an objective mind. GTFO this thread.
Still, how do you explain Kobe's performance in game 4 vs. OKC? We don't need to go further than that. Did he quit as well? Or he just isn't that good? Because he was worse in that game, and in game 1, than LeBron yesterday. And again, LeBron has been spectacular this series.[/QUOTE]
Game 4 is not as crucial as game 5. And please, stop making yourself looking like a fool by throwing arguments for the sake of it.
Again. If Cavs fans are calling out Lebron for it, then I dont see how anyone much especially a Celtic fan can defend it other than agenda.
Pathetic. No wonder this guy still believes Kobe is the best player in the game. He live in an alternative reality.
Tell us, Rsx, you really love that guy, don't you?
Pathetic. No wonder this guy still believes Kobe is the most overrated player in the game. He live in an alternative reality.
Tell us, Mogrovejo, you reall hate that guy dont you?
So, has Kobe quit on his awful games versus the Thunder or he just isn't that good?
Lakers won the series. Kobe had a great Game 5 and 6. What's the problem?
I'm not saying there's a problem. You'll certainly admit LeBron has had great games in this series - a 38/8/7 shooting 62% game. When was the last time Kobe topped that? 2007, 2006?Lakers won the series. Kobe had a great Game 5 and 6. What's the problem?
The question was if Kobe quit on his awful games versus the Thunder or he just isn't that good?It's pretty simple. If this issue affects you too much emotionally, you can just say you prefer not to answer, but there's not much of a point in trying to beg the question. But that's the question.
I like Kobe, but Pierce took it too his rapist ass in 2008. Averaging 26 points doesn't mean you're better. I guess Monta Ellis is better than Dirk Nowitzki.
And Kobe is pretty useless if he's in chuck mode. He can single-handedly lose a game for his team with his chucking, especially if he is off and shooting under 40% for one of his patented 28 points on 7-35 shooting or whatever. At least LeBron can dish out tons of assists and grab rebounds.
Kobe never topped that. Lebron is just the better all around player. I dont have any qualms with that. But I dont think Lebron is the best player based on those merits.
I did'nt see anything from Kobe's body language at any point that he quit in that series, he was still recuperating after missing the last few games of the season. I mean, you should come up with other scenarios to prove a point. But specifically choosing a series where the Lakers won with Kobe playing a solid effort and all around game is quite hilarious.
Kobe, as compromised & stricken as he is--is indeed the best player. The lack of compeition for the top spot ain't his fault.
All I know is everything the haters always said about LeBron James is true.
LeBron is still a great entertainer though.
Mogro,
Do you think it was just an off-night for Lebron? What if he has another poor (by his standards) night on Game 6?
I guess my point is, how do you decide personally if it's the Celtics defense or lack of effort on Lebron's part?
My 2 cents.
Lebron is the better player...currently. Just like in 2006 Kobe was the best player in the league. Since then, Kobe got some help and learned how to use his help, thus making his numbers go down significantly. Kobe isnt the best player in the league right now, but he has a better chance cementing his legacy as one of the greatest. Lebron has help, just doesnt seem to figure it out yet.
My 2 cents. Not a Kobe hater at all despite what people say.
Kobe has'nt been the best player since 2005-2006, after that Lebron just took over. This year, Kobe is third, behind Lebron and Wade. Durant was exposed in the playoffs so he should'nt be mentioned in the Top 5 talk until he learns to average more assists than turnovers. I know I was the one who overreacted with Durant's regular season progression.
Closer. Kobe is the best this season only. Not every year or for the last decade as some homers wants to believe it.
Kobe against the Celtics. Yeah its a mixture of choking and the Celtics who was by far the most talented defensive team of the decade making sure he earned each bucket. But i think its 70% choking on kobe's part though.
Pierce. Never a fan of him and I agree with Rsxpiimp. I dont think he should be the Finals MVP. I also thought ray allen deserved it, but he was less flamboyant and was a class act and i think pierce was the captain the face of the celtics and pulled a willis reed thats why he got it.
lebron. still the best player and better player of the game. 2 mvp's cant deny that. he disappeared in game 5 but I have a marvelous feeling that he'll be huge in game 6 and
peace
Dear lord Rsx, not at you but at the roller-caoster of hypocrisy this forum is.
You got threads were Pau is bashed, threads were Pau is the reason the Lakers are winning, threads that claim Kobe is washed up, threads that claim Pau is/is not better than Tim the last 2 years, threads that call Pau the REAL MVP yet is not better than Tim and so on and so on.
What a bunch of lunatics.
My 2 cents. Not a Kobe hater at all despite what people say.
LOL
Kobe has'nt been the best player since 2005-2006, after that Lebron just took over. This year, Kobe is third, behind Lebron and Wade. Durant was exposed in the playoffs so he should'nt be mentioned in the Top 5 talk until he learns to average more assists than turnovers. I know I was the one who overreacted with Durant's regular season progression. True
Closer. Kobe is the best this season only. Not every year or for the last decade as some homers wants to believe LOLit.
Kobe against the Celtics. Yeah its a mixture of choking and the Celtics who was by far the most talented defensive team of the decade making sure he earned each bucket. But i think its 70% choking on kobe's part though.
Pierce. Never a fan of him and I agree with Rsxpiimp. I dont think he should be the Finals MVP. I also thought ray allen deserved it, but he was less flamboyant and was a class act and i think pierce was the captain the face of the celtics and pulled a willis reed thats why he got it.
True
lebron. still the best player and better player of the game. 2 mvp's cant deny that. he disappeared in game 5 but I have a marvelous feeling that he'll be huge in game 6 and
we will see ...I know if kobe did what LBJ did last night you would of posted a bunch of crap ...so I am enjoying this even if i admire Lebron ...
As for OP ..no. BUT I'd still RATHER have Kobe in the last 2 mins or come playoff time. dude is a killer ...Lebron still fine tuning his killer instinct. he can have the MVP's rings validate greatness. Nash is a 2tme MVP as well how is that working out so far (befoore this season)
peace
agree with most of this ...Kobe is not as dominant as Lebron game to game but there is NO ONE inthe NBA right now id rather have in the last 2 mins ...and that has been true since around 2000 regardless of what the advanced stats say ...
Curious, after the 2005-06 season, would you have said Steve Nash was a better player than Dwyane Wade... because 2 mvp's cant deny that?
Off night + good defense.
I'll elaborate.
LeBron started the game by trying to get his teammates involved. I'm not sure if that's a winning strategy for the Cavs, because with Shaq completely out of form since coming back from injury, AV not being the same since the back spasms and Brown's decisions, their supporting cast may just be too horrible. Anyway, it worked. People are forgetting the Cavs were up by 8 or so a few minutes into the 2nd quarter - exactly when LeBron was being "awfully passive". He didn't have a field goal and yet they had a comfortable margin.
Then there was the turning point in the game, taht 15-0 run for the Celtics - which was due to the inep ude and selfishness of his teammates. I mean, I can't remember all the plays in detail, but there were a lot of bad turnovers and shots from the Cavs role.players there + Garnett eating Jamison alive in the post.
LeBron stepped up and puts an end to it by creating some free-throws on isolations. The Cs quickly start trapping LeBron even when he's a couple of feet out of the arc and some long jumpers keep them in the game. Then the Celtics come out in the 3rd and go on a scoring spree with those 3 pointers from offensive rebounds + Rondo just creating on Mo at will. Just like that they had a 16 points or so gap.
Cleveland's effort to win as a team was shattered. It was time for LeBron to try to take over in desperate situation. But he was reduced to contested jump-shots and they weren't falling. And, more importantly, they weren't able to get stops, mostly due to Mike Brown's overcoaching... and without stops their role-players simply couldn't score, their confidence disappeared and eventually LeBron checked out of the game. But it was over by then.
This game reminded me not of a game 3 in reverse or a game 1 with a different end in this series, but of the last regular season between the 2 teams in Boston. The one where the Cavs do that amazing 4th quarter comeback but fall short. The differences were: the Celtics offence didn't stall much thanks to the Cavs interior defense inep ude to even slow down Glenn Davis; LeBron's jumpers over double teams weren't falling. Anyway, the inability to get stops killed the Cavs offense. You can't expect to score consistently in the half-court versus the Celtics when you have a single offensive contributor on the floor.
Lack of effort is an excused used too often. Why the heck wouldn't he give the effort? happens. I've seen Bird having worse games than this one from James. Heck, even some Spurs fans were questioning Duncan's heart and effort after some of his games this post-season.
LeBron in a playoff game versus the Celtics in 2008 had 12 points in 18 shots and 10 turnovers. He followed it by yet another terrible game, with 20 points in 24 shots, 7 turnovers and only 5 rebounds. Was it lack of effort as well? He took that series to the final seconds of a game 7 just by himself. Just like he won game 1 and 3 for Cleveland this series all by himself.
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