Artest just holds people alot, he is not dirty
As a Spurs fan, I'm used to fans and media blasting Bruce Bowen for any questionable play, even when it's borderline(which would be the category I would place the play in the OP)..it's the reputation that Bruce earned by committing dirty plays..
I don't see how it's unfair for me to use the same criteria that is used when any other dirty player is involved..
What does this thread have to do with Bruce Bowen.
Have you watched the video?
Watch the video then post your opinion before suggesting Kobe is now "using other [dirty] methods" implying he did in fact intentionally kick Tony Allen.
Kobe just needs to get over the fact that there are people in the league who can stop him... albeit not consistently, but he doesn't have to resort to these dirty plays. If you take a look in the video, Manu, Shane Battier, Raja Bell... all those guys are known for their great defense. When Kobe got his shot blocked, he can't let go of the fact that he got owned, so it's his reaction to elbow the other person to try and regain possession. Obviously anybody who watched game 2 knew that Tony Allen played some good defense, while Kobe was struggling on the floor at the same time. It is not that surprising that Kobe would do something like this at all...
You gotta admit, ever since Chris Childs stole on him, and Reggie got the best of him, he's been taking no prisoners ever since!
On the real though. WTF is Allen talking about. They are the dirtiest team east of the Mississippi (Thuggets are #1). Now that they can't bully us they want to whine and send tapes to the league to try and get an edge. Even funnier? PP getting worked by Ron "Chinese Death blow" Artest
There's no way that was intentional, unless Kobe has been practicing some sort of precognitive mystic martial arts.
The video doesn't show anything..it doesn't really make a difference anyways, none of us know Kobe's true intentions, it's all speculation..
The only thing we know for certain is that Kobe DID kick Tony Allen in the head/neck area..based on the reputation he's built off of all the cheap shots he's taken, I don't see how it's a stretch to believe it was intentional..
To my knowledge, Tony Allen doesn't have a history of lying or being the type of guy that would fabricate something like this..
The other guy involved has had plenty of dirty incidents and was having trouble scoring on Allen that night..there was plenty of motive for this incident, so it's not far-fetched..
I'm not saying it's a fact that it was intentional, it's impossible to know, but it's certainly a very strong and more likely possibility IMO..
The video shows Kobe raising up for a jump shot. The video shows Kobe looking at the rim the entire time, even at the point when he kicks Tony Allen. The video shows that it was a shot clock winding down bail-out 25 foot three pointer Kobe took. How the is he going to think about kicking Tony Allen's neck when he's focused on beating the shot clock with a 25 footer? The video shows Tony Allen diving head first towards Kobe feet.
I guess what you determine as the video not showing anything is far different than what I took from the video.
Gotta wonder how much they stress using elbows back in their high schools since KG, Dwight Howard, and Kobe love to use 'em.
Man you're dense.
Of course I saw this, it's right in front of me..it's meaningless though..
Are you saying Kobe has no periphery vision or awareness of what is right next or very closely around him?..it's basketball, you have defenders and all kinds of action all around you, you have to be aware of everything, especially if you're a player of that caliber..
Of course he knew where Allen was..Kobe is one of the top 3 best perimeter scorers of all-time, he's one of the most focused athletes ever..I'm pretty sure he knows how to follow his surroundings and be aware of everything around him, even in pressure situations, it's part of his talent and part of his responsibility as an elite player..
It wouldn't be that difficult at all for a guy of his stature, not even close IMO..
Going by reputation is a better method than reading minds..I'm saying that I don't know if it was intentional, but that it's more likely that it was than not, based on Kobe's well-deserved rep..
You're saying it definitely wasn't intentional, and you're basing this on your belief that Kobe has no awareness of what's around him and no ability to to focus on something while keeping track of where his defender is..
Kind of a stretch TBH, and you're really underrating Kobe's ability IMO..
Last edited by HarlemHeat37; 06-10-2010 at 07:23 PM.
why is it that when kobe shoots unguarded---you don't see his legs kicking out---
but watch when he is closely guarded---legs swing out---elbows flail and swing,etc..
but this is on the league
they have let him get away with this type of play forever--and on the other side---you can't even breathe on him---
like the last game when he drove in --elevated--no-one made contact---he gets the and-1...
as long as the league has this double-standard---this will happen all the time...
maybe the kick was unintentional---but kobe has worked these aggressive offensive kicks/elbows,etc into his game to probably get more calls--so it was not that much of a mystery that he made contact...
as soon as a defender figures out how to neutralize this tactic
the nba---will change the rules again--so that their superstars get all the advantage again
Bruce Lee Bowen was the king of effing perimeter players up. I know you are not defending what the Celtics are doing. It's no coincidence that Kobe is shooting a lower % this series. It's clear: he is worried about getting hurt. Now they are trying crowd him in an effort to hurt him. Funny how it has backfired on them. Studio Gangsta is next.
This at ude is fine, but when Spurfan won't shut up when someone like Kobe commits a dirty play yet in the very next sentence will talk about how classy and innocent Bruce Bowen was it's hypocritical. When the Spurs were winning championships, they committed just as many dirty plays as the Lakers do now, but that's not a problem, you don't win championships by acting nice.
Nothing of substance here. Just Harlem/Chris/Miami showing their obssesion and stupidity AGAIN and AGAIN!!!
It was clear when it happend and its clear in the videos. Nothing but accidental contact. Any 5 year old can see that.
incidental. kobe's dirty at times, but this wasn't intentional
I agree, and I acknowledge that there are plenty of Spurs fans that get butthurt when somebody criticizes Bruce for it..
Kobe's frustration pushed him to do this last tuesday, in Phil Jackson's book the Last Season, Phil mentioned that "Kobe can be consumed with surprising anger". I remember Artest was manhandling Kobe in the post last year. So Kobe retaliated and elbowed Artest in the throat. That's pretty low specially since Artest is a good guy. Kobe's 10-29 shooting may have finally pushed him over the edge. Unfortunately for Allen, he just became one of the many poor individuals consumed by Kobe's anger.
I mean, Tony Allen is a good guy. Id take his word over Kobe Bryant any day of the week.
You misrepresented what I wrote.
Yes, Kobe was aware Tony Allen was diving underneath him. He felt him and he very likely saw him in his peripheral vision. That's precisely why he moved his legs differently, to avoid being undercut. My point was that his main focus was on beating the shot clock and making the shot, not on "intentionally" kicking Tony Allen's neck. I think there's a different level of awareness between trying to get out of the way of someone undercutting you and actually intentionally and purposefully kicking someone in the neck. That's how I interpreted it. And no, I'm not reading Kobe's mind. I'm looking at the video to make that personal determination.
Using Kobe's reputation doesn't even apply here. His reputation is for elbowing guys after he's done shooting the ball, not kicking a guy while still in the shooting motion. That's not his dirty reputation. And that's not something you can draw a parallel here.
But yes, I'm saying it was definitely not intentional. The video does support it. You don't have to read minds. You don't have interpret intent. You don't have to look at reputation. Kobe wasn't trying to intentionally kick Tony Allen.
Kobe's elbow on Manu's face= intentional
kobe elbowing raja bell resulting in a payback clothesline courtesy by mr. bell= intentional.
Kobe's sharp elbow on Mike Miller coming down to the lane= intentional
kobe's elbow on marko jaric= intentional
kobe's elbow on artest's throat=intentional as
kobe wrapping his hands on ms. fabers neck, eventhough she said stop= intentional
come on, look at the guy's record...
Back to Tony Allen's jumper though, does anyone agree it's one of the ugliest shots in the league?
Why aren't you watching a cHeat game? Oh, that's right - they're at home. My bad...
Yeah, he's right there with Marion, Camby and Kenyon Martin.
Wade is busy building a dynasty right now recruiting top of the line NBA talents. Dont worry, their time will come again.
I agree that all of those were intentional with the possible exception of the elbow on Artest. It may have been, but I don't think it was absolutely intentional. Kobe was boxing out for a rebound and caught Ron. That's something that might not be intentional.
But the others, they were all intentional.
Kicking Tony Allen's neck was not intentional.
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