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You think:
Chauncey Billups > Kobe Bryant
Kobe is not and will never be Jordan.
But I don't see a problem with him "being in the conversation." Kobe will never come out as the better player or even as an equal player as Jordan. But he can enter the discussion. He'll always come short. He's really the only scoring wing player in the same mold as Jordan that could even be in the conversation. But yes, he isn't equal and certainly not better than the GOAT.
You think:
Chauncey Billups > Kobe Bryant
29 PPG/8 RPG/4 APG/2 SPG.
And the owner of the highest TS% in the series
Your very word is pathetic. Do Spurstalk a favor and get off. Your talk is nonsense.
Many laker fans will not concede in this way. I know you hate MJ, so it says a lot that you can admit this. When laker fans build up Kobe into something he's not, it makes everyone else wanna see him brought back down to earth. Tonight was a perfect example.
Nah, I did when I was younger...
I'm just fine with him being Kobe, I can enjoy the player he is now w/o having to compare him to others
That's a horrible argument. Would it be better if Kobe lost in the WCF instead of the finals in 2004 and 2008 so that Kobe is 5 for 5 in the finals?
No one is comparing Kobe to MJ, especially after his horrible offensive performance tonight. , I don't think anyone even most Kobe fans is gonna even truly start to throw that argument out there until Kobe wins his 6th ring. Kobe is 2 rings away from legitimately having an argument against MJ. People need to realize how big of an addition 2 more rings would be to cementing Kobe's legacy. Kobe will never have the efficiency or the ppg stats that MJ has in the finals or even in the playoffs for that matter. Just look at how good these defenses are at swarming and making superstar players make incredibly hard shots. Handchecking was never removed from the game, it happens every single play and is rarely called, especially in the playoffs. Imagine Kobe going against Iso defense on the perimeter in all of these playoff games, his fg% would be around 50 in that case. He wouldn't be taking forced to take long 2s against double coverage when he really wants to get a shot attempt up.
Tonight's game he really played a bad offensive game, and these were the best looks hes gotten all series.
There are several things that separate Jordan from Kobe. Jordan's stats and awards should on their own destroy any comparisons of himself to Kobe. There are other things like Jordan being the better leader and better teammate. Jordan was always the best player on his team and was always the main man. Jordan never lost an NBA Finals. Jordan dominated in the NBA Finals. How many times were the Bulls ever in danger of losing an NBA Finals?
I don't use Jordan never losing a Finals series as an argument, it's weak IMO..losing in the Finals shouldn't be held against anybody, unless they perform like Kobe did in 2004..
There's just literally no possible argument for Kobe vs. Jordan though..he's severely lacking the accolades and stats..
I agree with JamStone 100%. But you're right many LA fans (Kobe fans really) have that problem and it really hurts Kobe's image more than it helps it
lol are u rly trying to suggest that defenses these day are tougher than the defenses mj faced?
Why do people want to compare the two? The answer is clear. But still enjoy the greatness that is Kobe, a Top 10 player in the HISTORY OF THE GAME. Not the greatest, but one of, and close to the top
This is undeniable IMO, the zone/man hybrid defenses are beyond any defense from before zone was allowed. Boston is a monstrous defensive team. Just look at FG% from guards in the 80s and 90s compared to now. Do you honestly think guards have gotten that much worse since then? Or was it maybe better defense forcing tougher shots and more outside shots?
tell that Marcus that Kobe will be closer to Jordan than he ever will be:
If you can name one team that was better defensively than these Lakers or Celtics that MJ played in the finals I'll concede the argument. I also mentioned the fact that defensive rules benefit players in the mold of the Kobe Bryant's or MJ's back then than it would now. Just look at Paul Pierce for example, the guy could get nearly any midrange look he wanted all series long, and even though he shot a poor % this series, those are the kind of looks you'd see MJ with in the 90s.
EDIT: Jamstone was right, the more you try to hype Kobe up, the harder people try to make him fall. MJ was my favorite player as a kid, and now Kobe is my favorite player. MJ is better than Kobe when you consider stats+legend+accomplishments. Talent level they are both roughly equal and I'd say it's fair to say in terms of "talent" Kobe would probably be everyone's pick. But basketball isn't all talent obviously.
jordan is better than Kobe
Most agree with this
wade is closer to kobe than kobe is to jordan
I'm not a fan of Kobe the man or the player but you're a fool if you don't respect his game. But his biggest problem (besides the insecurity that plagues him between the ears) is that he's not blazing a new trail or defining the game and his position in a new way. He's maybe the closest thing will ever see to Jordan, and even if he somehow managed to have it all click mentally and equal Jordan (it's never been about a lack of skill or physicality) he'd only be the second man to reach the peak of Everest or step foot on the moon.
Kobe's biggest problem when it comes to legacy is that the path he chose or the foundation he built his game upon had already been discovered and the blueprints had already been laid out -- and it just so happened it was done by the player widely believed to be the GOAT.
Jordan was meeting physical defenses even before he got to the Finals. I think the Knicks defense of the 90's s on Boston and LA's defenseThey swarmed the out of Jordan and were a lot more physical in punishing the guy. Kobe never saw contact like this.
Wade is a MFing beast. If he had a contending team he'd be considered Kobe's equal right now...depending on who won the le anyway
I watched like 6 minutes of that video. So the Knicks trying to knock MJ to the floor is what you consider good physical defense? How does that affect field goal % again? And the entire video is just arrows pointing to all 5 Knicks players who are within 15 feet of MJ when MJ gets into the paint.Jordan was meeting physical defenses even before he got to the Finals. I think the Knicks defense of the 90's s on Boston and LA's defense
Heard this type of argument before, actually recently. And don't buy it. Your argument boils down to the fact Jordan is better because he was born before Kobe.
I'm not a fan of Kobe the man or the player but you're a fool if you don't respect his game. But his biggest problem (besides the insecurity that plagues him between the ears) is that he's not blazing a new trail or defining the game and his position in a new way. He's maybe the closest thing will ever see to Jordan, and even if he somehow managed to have it all click mentally and equal Jordan (it's never been about a lack of skill or physicality) he'd only be the second man to reach the peak of Everest or step foot on the moon.
Kobe's biggest problem when it comes to legacy is that the path he chose or the foundation he built his game upon had already been discovered and the blueprints had already been laid out -- and it just so happened it was done by the player widely believed to be the GOAT.
"Blazing paths" or being the "first" isn't what really distinguishes Jordan from Kobe. It's just that Jordan was better. Period. Not because he was first. Not because Kobe comes after. Jordan was just better.
Allen Iverson and KG and Dirk are the types of players that are "trail blazers" or "first of their type of player." Unique and so different than players before them. But that fact alone wouldn't make you argue they are better than Kobe.
Jordan is just better than Kobe. Period. Not because he's first. Because he's better.
I have no problem saying MJ>Kobe Magic>Kobe ...
BUT HE is in the conversation ...
Oh yeah Marcus Jordan it's an insult that you carry your Dad's last name ...
As Mj said at the HOF "I hate to be you guy ..."
Muhahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
oh , jordan still made that dunk.
yep i think so, i hope stupid ass lebron signs with the heat, i really want to see that team go against the west's best.
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