Lebron/Wade vs MJ/Pippen

[Jacob1983]

There was more talent and compe ion when Jordan and Pippen played. And yes, I know that the Bulls won 6 championships in the 1990s but there were a lot of compe ive teams. The Eastern Conference was awesome in the 1990s. The Western Conference was probably just a step below the East too. Jordan/Pippen is the best duo in NBA history, probably in the history of sports.

[Edward]

being able to post up doesnt make you stronger. you think Pau Gasol is stronger than Lebron simply because he has a post game? What about Kevin McHale? gtfo

If Lebron had this herculean strength you claim he has he wouldn't have gotten shut down by Tony in Allen.

[Kevin Durant 35]

Jordan and LeBron now thats a combo !

[Obstructed_View]

Hmmm....let's see...oh yeah. I think I'll take the ones who actually played a regular season game together. How about we re-evaluate in six years?

[Juanobili]

MJ


by HIMSELF

[stretch]

If Lebron had this herculean strength you claim he has he wouldn't have gotten shut down by Tony in Allen.

he didnt get shut down by Tony in Allen. He didnt get shut down, period. he perhaps got slowed down by the entire Celtics defense, along with his teammates sucking complete ass.

[stretch]

Jordan and Pippen never faced anything close to the athleticism and strength and quickness of a wing tandem like Wade and LeBron. Great as they were defensively, they'd absolutely have their hands full against them.

If either Wade or LeBron could come anywhere close to matching Jordan offensively (which is possible), I think the other completely outplays Pippen. Pippen often gets some romantic and nostalgic sense of greatness when it comes to his offense. He was a good offensive player, pretty versatile. But even when Jordan left for those almost 2 seasons, Pippen was still roughly a 21-22 ppg scorer IIRC as the main option. Scottie just wasn't an explosive scorer even when he had opportunities. And as versatile a defender as Scottie was, he never faced anything close to LeBron physically. Not Magic, not Dominique, not Clyde. Closest might have been Shawn Kemp or Karl Malone, and Scottie wouldn't have to be the primary defender on either. Wade would at least test Jordan physically and athletically.

I give Wade/LeBron a chance because they have the size, athleticism, quickness, and strength to match-up against either and both. I think Jordan and Pippen were the smarter players and the more skilled players. Jordan is the best player of the four, but I think Pippen brings Jordan down.

+1

exactly what I was thinking

[Edward]

he didnt get shut down by Tony in Allen.

O yes he did:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...005110CLE.html

perfect example of a game Lebron coulda used his size and strength if he posted s up on the block but instead Tony Allen forced him to take jumpers.

[lefty]

There was more talent and compe ion when Jordan and Pippen played. And yes, I know that the Bulls won 6 championships in the 1990s but there were a lot of compe ive teams. The Eastern Conference was awesome in the 1990s. The Western Conference was probably just a step below the East too. Jordan/Pippen is the best duo in NBA history, probably in the history of sports.

This.

[OC Lakerfan]

Winners > Winner
Jordan/Pippen > Wade/Lebron

[stretch]

O yes he did:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...005110CLE.html

perfect example of a game Lebron coulda used his size and strength if he posted s up on the block but instead Tony Allen forced him to take jumpers.

yeah, that certainly proves that Allen shut Lebron down playing one-on-one defense the entire game

[stretch]

There was more talent and compe ion when Jordan and Pippen played. And yes, I know that the Bulls won 6 championships in the 1990s but there were a lot of compe ive teams. The Eastern Conference was awesome in the 1990s. The Western Conference was probably just a step below the East too. Jordan/Pippen is the best duo in NBA history, probably in the history of sports.

Revisionist history at its finest. There absolutely was not more talent and compe ion in the 90s.

I agree Jordan/Pippen is arguably the best duo ever (although Magic and Kareem legitimately may have an argument for that), but your evaluation of compe ion in the 90s is simply a nostalgic factor.

[JamStone]

There were a lot of talented players in the 90s, but after the Bulls, the next best teams in the 90s were the Houston Rockets and Utah Jazz. As great as Hakeem was, he didn't have enough help on his teams to beat most of the champions in the 2000s. And I don't think Utah even makes it to the NBA Finals in any season in the 2000s.

[galvatron3000]

you laughed too

[greensborohill]

Who would you rather have?

You mean Wade/LeBron vs. MJ/Pip, right?

[Edward]

Here's the difference IMO, back when MJ played, it was a game dominated by big men and there were a lot more dominant PFs and Cs back then. It was also a game that didn't reward athleticism half as much as athleticism is rewarded now. If MJ was sent to the FT line every time he lowered his shoulder and barreled into the lane while dislaying no skill whatsoever like Lebron does god only knows how dominant he woulda been. You can't just ignore how much easier it is for a SG or SF to dominate a game nowadays than it was back when fouls were called sparingly.

Which duo I'd take depends on the era. If this is the modern era where we have refs who reward athletes who don't have any go to moves or skill, give me Lebron + Wade. If we're in an era where you actually needed skill and polish to be productive, give me Pippen and Jordan.

[galvatron3000]

I personally don't believe Pippen could guard LeBron but it depends of the situation. LeBron is stronger than Pip and these rules would put him at a disadvantage. Wade and MJ is not worth talking about, my money says Wade misses more shots than MJ does plus short people get beasted by MJ so this is a wash.

What you fail to mention is the third player in all this Rodman or Grant and Bosh. I personally never considered the Bulls a trio but the Miami Heat have a trio not a duo

[stretch]

Here's the difference IMO, back when MJ played, it was a game dominated by big men and there were a lot more dominant PFs and Cs back then. It was also a game that didn't reward athleticism half as much as athleticism is rewarded now. If MJ was sent to the FT line every time he lowered his shoulder and barreled into the lane while dislaying no skill whatsoever like Lebron does god only knows how dominant he woulda been. You can't just ignore how much easier it is for a SG or SF to dominate a game nowadays than it was back when fouls were called sparingly.

Which duo I'd take depends on the era. If this is the modern era where we have refs who reward athletes who don't have any go to moves or skill, give me Lebron + Wade. If we're in an era where you actually needed skill and polish to be productive, give me Pippen and Jordan.

@ the thought that the refs never awarded Jordan or other stars

[OC Lakerfan]

I personally don't believe Pippen could guard LeBron but it depends of the situation. LeBron is stronger than Pip and these rules would put him at a disadvantage. Wade and MJ is not worth talking about, my money says Wade misses more shots than MJ does plus short people get beasted by MJ so this is a wash.

What you fail to mention is the third player in all this Rodman or Grant and Bosh. I personally never considered the Bulls a trio but the Miami Heat have a trio not a duo

Well if the game is on the line, I'd take MJ over Lebron any day. So it is not a wash by any means.

Rodman > Bosh

[Edward]

Revisionist history at its finest. There absolutely was not more talent and compe ion in the 90s.

There was in the sense that there was more parity between teams because everyone was still new to the salary cap/lottery. The teams that contended in that era would not contend with the current day stacked teams, but there were a lot more contending teams back then, nowadays there are 3-4 teams every year that have any chance at winning.

Just look at 1995 and how wide open it was. Entering the playoffs the Knicks, Magic, Pacers, Spurs, Jazz, Rockets, Suns and Sonics all had a realistic chance at a championship. He never had to go against stacked teams like the 2010 Lakers, but he was never on one of them either.

[Edward]

@ the thought that the refs never awarded Jordan or other stars

The refs didn't reward Jordan half as much as they rewarded Wade in 2006 or have always rewarded Lebron. Quit acting dumb, we both know the refs didn't turn games into free throw contests back then like they do today. I wouldn't be surprised if MJ averaged 20 free throws a game in today's NBA.

[stretch]

The refs didn't reward Jordan half as much as they rewarded Wade in 2006

thats because they werent rewarding Wade. they were screwing over the Mavs.

[Edward]

thats because they werent rewarding Wade. they were screwing over the Mavs.

Bull . The NBA has been on a mission to find the next MJ ever since he retired. Stern saw an opportunity to help Wade be the first SG to lead a team to a le since MJ so he made sure it happened. Wade fell off a cliff the next season so it didn't matter, but the 2006 finals was one the things Stern has ed with since MJ retired to turn the NBA into a league dominated by SG's and SF's.

[stretch]

Bull . The NBA has been on a mission to find the next MJ ever since he retired. Stern saw an opportunity to help Wade be the first SG to lead a team to a le since MJ so he made sure it happened. Wade fell off a cliff the next season so it didn't matter, but the 2006 finals was one the things Stern has ed with since MJ retired to turn the NBA into a league dominated by SG's and SF's.

wrong. because the fouls being called were nonexistent, and werent being consistently called for Wade until the finals. then after the finals, those phantom calls quickly started to dwindle again.

[Edward]

wrong. because the fouls being called were nonexistent, and werent being consistently called for Wade until the finals. then after the finals, those phantom calls quickly started to dwindle again.

Wade got plenty of treatment against the Pistons. I remember how much the refs sent him to the line to ensure Miami would take a 3-1 series lead and effectively end Detroit's season.