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  1. #26
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I know what you mean about working for the government and all their buy american clauses and 40 pages of reps and certs. I've worked for the various military bases here in San Antonio for years.

    They really carry that buy American stuff to extremes. A few years back a local contracting company had the contract to build the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia. It was stucco on concrete construction. A friend of mine got the contract to supply the sand for the concrete/stucco. They literally bagged it in 80# sacks and transported it to the Port of Houston so it could be shipped to Saudi Arabia. We laughed our asses off at what a of a salesman he was to be able to sell sand to Saudi Arabia.
    Thats the greatest story ever.

  2. #27
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/

    I did a sample of the jobs open in the Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio areas.

    The majority of the sample required a bachelor's or above. Master's and PhD requirements were common within the sample as well.

    Of the jobs that didn't require a specific college education, many were for electrical workers or professional trades.

    If you like I will prepare a summary, and present the data with % of job openings requiring which degrees and/or specializations.

    There were indeed a few lower level clerical jobs that did not require degrees or much skill, but these were few.

    Sorry Darrin, but your dogma doesn't seem to match reality, yet again.

    Don't take my word for it, the link is right there. See for yourself.
    preferential treatment to vets

  3. #28
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Automotive business will never be what it was ever again, especially since everything is made in northern Mexico. All the big companies, Vehma, ThyssenKrupp, GM, Ford, American Axle, all of them have HUGE, legendary, cutting-edge, never before seen plants in one little town in northern Mexico where basically all design and prototyping is done.

    them and this country for allowing it.

    So, instead of chasing the cost of some broke-ass, third-world hole where pathetic s are willing to work for pennies a day, I figured the military is where its at.

    Its mandatory that all military production and manufacture be done in America by Americans. The as-rolled steel I buy for every project? Yeah, it needs to be certified American made and rolled. Huge fines and even criminal action can be taken against you as a supplier if they find out youre lying or cheating. All staff must be born and bred American, no work visas, no green cards and they spot check you randomly. Moreover, since I'll be supplying indirectly (intially) to the government, my customer has a responsibility to make sure my products are being produced in the states as it is their ass if I am ing around.

    Moreover, this country loves war. I dont, but this country does. This country also has lots of allies who buy American weapons platforms by the thousands every year. Hummers, APCs, light assaults, heavy assaults, etc.

    UK, Afghanistan, Iraq, the UN, Israel, Australia and Canada are all very heavy customers of the Military Industial Complex.

    I am less than a month away from being a certified military contractor, indirectly right to the Pentagon. In less than a year, I have a scheduled visit at the Pentagon so long as my company performs to standard (its not as uncommon as it sounds, but its going to be a big deal for me... , the company down the street has a private jet they send back and forth to the Pentagon every week picking up and dropping off military and civilian staff...that will be the jet I will fly on).

    In 5 years time, my company will have gone from struggling automotive company to established, multi-million dollar standard in the military world of arms and armor.

    Thats the plan anyway. Next three weeks determines the rest of my life.
    Was that whole buy from america done after the army put everyone in black berets which were made in china?

  4. #29
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Was that whole buy from america done after the army put everyone in black berets which were made in china?
    No idea. Dont know about textiles, doo.

    But the equipment you flew and drove while wearing that ridiculous hat? American made.

  5. #30
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The Buy America thing has been in place in construction for at least 30 years that I know of.

  6. #31
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    The Buy America thing has been in place in construction for at least 30 years that I know of.
    So we can establish that equipment and construction are definitely under the clause.

    Textiles, not so much.

  7. #32
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    preferential treatment to vets
    High-five!

    You and I both know that nearly all the gov positions worth any money are 90% filled by former vets...

  8. #33
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    With the exception of political appointees (I'd contribute to a rant on that if it came up), there is a high level of skill and education required for most federal jobs. With the GS pay system, the levels of promotion are very clearly delineated. If you want to be hired on at GS-09, you HAVE to have that masters degree, or a bachelors with at least a year's full time experience at the bachelor level with promise to excel in a master's level. The application process requires you to note the number of hours per week that you devoted to a specialized skill, so if your numbers don't add up to 40/wk for a year, that experience won't get you the job.

    The people that I know who have gotten federal level positions in the last year both have 2 masters degrees apiece. With the current levels of compensation, those positions have gotten incredibly compe ive and are consequently hiring very qualified candidates.

    The federal employees that you're laughing at are probably the people at GS-05 or below who are working the crap jobs that wouldn't really garner any better performance in the private sector (customer service at Comcast anyone? Private sector does not guarantee more motivated or knowledgeable employees).
    I don't know the GS system except that in my job field, when i looked, much higher GS levels are attainable with just an associates, or equivalent. Most entry jobs do not start at high GS levels without higher degrees, but you can climb up the ladder once in.

  9. #34
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    We need the well-schooled Mandarins to manage us, of course.

  10. #35
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Jeeez already. Get off the computer. The fries are ready.
    I wonder how many times he burns them?

  11. #36
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    We need the well-schooled Mandarins to manage us, of course.
    ...or a partnership with our NA neighbors to secure and spread out risk.

  12. #37
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    So the American taxpayer is subsidizing the lucrative employment of a host of former grad students. That's the issue here, regardless of the public v private sector professions mix in employment.

    The last decade should have disabused the notion in the populace of the value of well-schooled individuals in positions of power in this country, be it in the public or private sector.

  13. #38
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    ...or a partnership with our NA neighbors to secure and spread out risk.
    Perhaps.

    Either we believe that human knowledge is held by a few and rationed out in semester long installments or it's generally accessible and available to all who care to pursue it.

  14. #39
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    The impeccable, reliable Dean Baker shows how Repug/tea bagger campaign bull is meant to target the innocent while protecting the guilty:


    The Public Pension Outrage and Alan Greenspan's Pension


    Monday 16 August 2010

    by: Dean Baker, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

    In recent weeks, there has been a serious effort by the conservatives and even many centrists to whip up anger at public sector workers over their pensions. The basic story is that public sector workers get better pensions on average than their private sector counterparts. At the same time, most state and local pension funds have large shortfalls, implying that additional government revenue will be needed to keep them solvent.

    This is supposed to make people really angry at public sector workers. The right-wing noise factory has been whipping up the hostility at public employees, sensing that they may have another ACORN on their hands. A New York Times columnist even called on retired public employees to give back pensions for which they worked and have solid legal claims.

    We should recognize the attack on public sector workers for what it is: a sleazy case of scapegoating that it is intended to divert people's attention from the real villains in this economy, the Wall Street boys and the inept economic policymakers who took the economy to ruin and seem intent on leaving it there.

    The basic facts are straightforward. Adjusting for education and experience, public sector workers actually get paid slightly less on average than their counterparts in the private sector. It is likely that the lower pay is largely or fully offset by a better benefit package, but it is likely that the difference in benefit packages between public and private sector workers is not as large as it may seem.

    First, it is important to realize that public sector workers are far more likely to have a college or advanced degree than the population as a whole. While most workers have little by way of a defined benefit or defined contribution pension, most workers with college or advanced degrees can count on being en led to at least a modest pension income in retirement.

    Second, many public sector workers are not covered by Social Security. This means that whatever they get from a government pension will be the bulk of their retirement income; it will not be a supplement to their Social Security benefits. With this in mind, the $22,000 pension that an average retired public employer received in 2007 hardly seems excessive.

    ...

    The reason that millions of people are suffering is a combination of Wall Street greed and incredible economic mismanagement. As we know, the Wall Street boys are back on their feet, with profits and bonuses again at record levels, thanks to the trillions of dollars in bailout money handed to them by the government in the fall of 2008. If people want to be angry at someone, the multi-million dollar bonuses going to hotshot traders at Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan might be a better target than a retired school teacher's $3,000 a month pension.

    The other appropriate target for the public's anger is the people running economic policy, who failed to prevent this entirely preventable disaster. While there are many people who should be unemployed for this colossal failure (none are), the culprit in chief is Alan Greenspan, arguably the worst central banker of all time. He insisted that everything was just fine even as the housing bubble expanded in size to more than $8 trillion at its peak. Did he think the bubble would just keep expanding forever or did he really believe that the economy could lose $8 trillion in wealth without any serious fallout?

    http://www.truth-out.org/the-public-...ion62358?print
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 08-16-2010 at 04:08 PM.

  15. #40
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    Here's the Repugs going after the middle class and public employees as welfare queens, which is as bogus and dishonest as it was when St Ronnie the Patron Saint of Dumb used welfare queens in Cadillacs to go after poor people:

    The GOP Continues to Smear the Middle Class — Next Up? Public Employees

    "one aspect of the Republican war against government–it’s a war against the middle class jobs that government creates, as if the dollars that public employees contribute to the economy, including the payroll taxes they pay along with everyone else, aren’t equivalent to private sector dollars."

    http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...aign=alternet#

    ===

    Not only is all-govt-bad-all-the-time (except with redistributing taxdollars to Repugs and their eg, MIC, owners) the Repug main whine, but the people who work for govt are also bad.

    Repugs sure know how to run an election campaign and shrink their base down to the extreme unelecting fringe.
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 08-17-2010 at 03:21 PM.

  16. #41
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DarrinS

    "High level of skill and education required for most federal jobs"

    http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/

    I did a sample of the jobs open in the Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio areas.

    The majority of the sample required a bachelor's or above. Master's and PhD requirements were common within the sample as well.

    Of the jobs that didn't require a specific college education, many were for electrical workers or professional trades.

    If you like I will prepare a summary, and present the data with % of job openings requiring which degrees and/or specializations.

    There were indeed a few lower level clerical jobs that did not require degrees or much skill, but these were few.

    Sorry Darrin, but your dogma doesn't seem to match reality, yet again.

    Don't take my word for it, the link is right there. See for yourself.
    I guess Darrin didn't want to respond to my calling his bull out.

    Still think that "goverment jobs" don't require greater than average skillsets?

  17. #42
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I guess Darrin didn't want to respond to my calling his bull out.

    Still think that "goverment jobs" don't require greater than average skillsets?

    I only laughed because I know a lot of govt employees. Sure, some have advanced degrees, but that usually doesn't mean a whole lot.

  18. #43
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I only laughed because I know a lot of govt employees. Sure, some have advanced degrees, but that usually doesn't mean a whole lot.
    Fair enough.

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