How lame is this?

[MannyIsGod]

[ElNono]

I understand binning. You see, Intels quality control is really good. They have more top spec CPU's than they can sell at top price, so they mark and market some as a lower class than they test as. In the case of CPU's with coprocessors, they would often disable a coprocessor and bin the unit as one without a coprocessor. Same holds true with cache. In the past, they relied on burning an internal link to disable the feature permanently. Now they made it a marketable feature, unlocking it with a key.

Wrong. Supply and demand. If they held for sales all that passed the highest tests, they would have too many for that class of chip, and the price falls. They would also have a shortage of the cheaper chips. Better to shoot for the best ratings and degrade some than have a shortage of chips some consumers want, and an overage of others you cannot sell.

If their supply was solely based by testing, the supply would be inconsistent.

Yes, cheaper for consumers, less profit for Intel.

It doesn't work like that at all. Nobody forces Intel to sell chips. If a batch turns out to be pretty good, they will stock it.

It costs Intel a lot of money to fab those chips. Just to get a production line running on a fab can take up to 3 years.

As it is, due to the complexities of 65nm and 45nm production and the fact that Intel refuses to use SOI on their chips, they get a sizeable amount of 'defective' batches. That is, processors that either can't max out on the speed because of parasitic capacitance or because one or more parts of the components didn't quite come out right (IE: a bad cache line). Some of those chips can be salvaged (IE: by shutting down said cache using a FIB, or simply having them run at slower clock speed).

Now, I've actually designed ICs, have first hand knowledge of SEM, FIBs and all you need to peek inside chips, and what not. The kind of stuff that chipworks will charge you an arm and a leg to do.
I can't tell you WHY I know that stuff, but I can easily spot a newbie on the topic when I see one.

You are right that I don't know the latest practices for a certainty, but you can bank on the fact that they still use a similar practice today as what I described.

So you don't know, but we should 'bank' that you're right...
If you don't know, the easiest way is to get informed before opening your mouth. You might come across somebody that actually does know, and you will look really stupid.

[ElNono]

WC, as usual, bringing his uneducated opinion and trotting it out for everyone to lulz at.

And at WC trying to prove he knows more than ElNono on the subject.

Meh... it's a pretty specific subject, so I won't outright laugh at him.
I think he just has the syndrome of 'I did a gig for Intel 15 years ago, so some of the stuff I overheard maybe still applies'.

[ElNono]

BTW, I have no problem disagreeing that you think what Intel is doing now is A-OK.
Just don't come telling me it's standard practice, because I know for a fact that's BS.

[mouse]

wild cobra you used to work on towers?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Now I don't know about this subject, but it wouldn't surprise me that WC talks out of his ass. He does it in almost any thread he posts.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the 50bucks only makes sense if INTEL also covers warranty for those cpus when overclocked

[Cry Havoc]

I did work at two different angles in the semicondictor industry. Four years with an equipment manufacturer and working with Intel people, and another four years working for a Chip maker.

ElNono is wrong, and so are you.

You're an idiot.

You're the guy who's asking for advice on what to buy in another thread from "real geeks" (because apparently you don't know enough about, gee, CAD to buy a computer to run it), and you think you can hold a serious discussion against ElNono?

What the is wrong with your brain? Seriously, how ed up in the head can you be to post this:

"I am looking at replacing it with the Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025. It has the i5 processor at 2.4 ghz. it has an 18.4" screen at 1680 x 945.

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow."

Because you don't know what you need processor/GPU-wise to run CAD, ING CAD applications, and then to summarily decide you know more about processors than a guy who has shown more intricate knowledge of computers than anyone in The Geek Forum, myself included?

"Hi, I'm Wild Cobra, I'll ask for your advice on a completely basic computer-purchasing issue and simultaneously tell you I know more about them than the people whose advice I'm asking for."

WC would probably walk up to Lance Armstrong and ask him what kind of road bike is good for a beginner, then tell him he's wrong for riding on a Trek frame with Bontrager wheels.

You have serious issues, dude. Your ego must be the size of ing Mars. I can't even fathom how warped your sense of self must be.

LOL @ using anything from 1994 to apply to today's systems over someone who's still actively in the field with applicable, demonstrable knowledge of modern computers.

[resistanze]

[Cry Havoc]

You are right that I don't know

End of the ing discussion.

What can I say? Stupidity upsets me at times. Usually I just laugh at it, but in special cases of vast incompetence, I can get angry.

As it is, due to the complexities of 65nm and 45nm production and the fact that Intel refuses to use SOI on their chips, they get a sizeable amount of 'defective' batches. That is, processors that either can't max out on the speed because of parasitic capacitance or because one or more parts of the components didn't quite come out right (IE: a bad cache line). Some of those chips can be salvaged (IE: by shutting down said cache using a FIB, or simply having them run at slower clock speed).

For those that are wondering, this is very accurate and extremely well-put. You can listen to this guy, or the guy who is asking you what computer he should buy for his daughter.



Epic thread status approaching. Can't wait to see WC's next post.

[ElNono]

BTW... on the crack-proof claim and Intel being an authority in the subject of tamper-resistant solutions:

Intel Threatens to Sue Anyone Who Uses HDCP Crack

LOL HDCP...

[resistanze]

Hackers gonna hack.

[Cry Havoc]

Hackers gonna hack.

I've got a top of the line laptop to sell WC, if he's interested.

Yo check it out, it's insanely great, it's got a 28.8 bps modem, with an active matrix, man, a million psychedelic colors!

BTW... on the crack-proof claim and Intel being an authority in the subject of tamper-resistant solutions:

Intel Threatens to Sue Anyone Who Uses HDCP Crack

LOL HDCP...

Yeah, 4chan and Reddit lit up like Christmas trees when that crack was posted. Awesome.

[DarkReign]

So weird that I find a thread mentioning HDCP.

Just this weekend I bought a bunch of BluRays and wanted to watch one of them on my PC. er wouldnt play.

After scouring the net, I find out about HDCP. Turns out, you need an HDCP compliant monitor to watch BluRay movies. My monitor is 6 years old (still badass, though, imo) and I now have a BluRay RW drive that is near worthless until I buy a new one.

Such bull .

[ElNono]

So weird that I find a thread mentioning HDCP.

Just this weekend I bought a bunch of BluRays and wanted to watch one of them on my PC. er wouldnt play.

After scouring the net, I find out about HDCP. Turns out, you need an HDCP compliant monitor to watch BluRay movies. My monitor is 6 years old (still badass, though, imo) and I now have a BluRay RW drive that is near worthless until I buy a new one.

Such bull .

Google 'HDFury2' and 'HDFury3'... monoprice.com has probably the best prices on them...

[resistanze]

I've got a top of the line laptop to sell WC, if he's interested.

Yo check it out, it's insanely great, it's got a 28.8 bps modem, with an active matrix, man, a million psychedelic colors!

I must say WC's new contributions to the Geek Zone in addition to the Political Forum has been nothing short of legendary. I wonder what kind of interesting i486 processors he could be selling in the Buy, Sell, Trade, Network.

[MannyIsGod]

this site is endless entertainment.

[leemajors]

So weird that I find a thread mentioning HDCP.

Just this weekend I bought a bunch of BluRays and wanted to watch one of them on my PC. er wouldnt play.

After scouring the net, I find out about HDCP. Turns out, you need an HDCP compliant monitor to watch BluRay movies. My monitor is 6 years old (still badass, though, imo) and I now have a BluRay RW drive that is near worthless until I buy a new one.

Such bull .

AnyDVD HD works great.

[DarkReign]

Google 'HDFury2' and 'HDFury3'... monoprice.com has probably the best prices on them...

AnyDVD HD works great.

Talk to me like I am an idiot...

Are you both saying these are workarounds for HDCP compliant monitors?

If so, you are frickin awesome.

[DarkReign]

Google 'HDFury2' and 'HDFury3'... monoprice.com has probably the best prices on them...

Oh! I get it.

HDCP must only work when an HDMI cable is plugged into the video card.

So youre saying (correct me if I am wrong) that using an HDMI converter is a workaround for not having a HDCP compliant monitor?

BTW, I use a DVI cord for my ancient monitor.

[leemajors]

Oh! I get it.

HDCP must only work when an HDMI cable is plugged into the video card.

So youre saying (correct me if I am wrong) that using an HDMI converter is a workaround for not having a HDCP compliant monitor?

BTW, I use a DVI cord for my ancient monitor.

DVI to HDMI cables won't work either. I ended up buying a lifetime license for AnyDVD HD, it bypasses/removes the HDCP crap. I bought a blu-ray drive for my comp last year and was really pissed when I couldn't output to my TV through my DVI to HDMI cable, but this program works great and is updated nearly weekly and I haven't run across any discs it can't decode. Also allows you to rip blu rays if you choose. Only drawback is it's $80, I think.

[Cry Havoc]

[Wild Cobra]

Meh... it's a pretty specific subject, so I won't outright laugh at him.
I think he just has the syndrome of 'I did a gig for Intel 15 years ago, so some of the stuff I overheard maybe still applies'.

In many ways you are right. however, I am only speaking of binning to match supply with demand. I know there are differences from the past to today. I already pointed that out. If it makes you feel better to focus on that, and write a book about the newer areas then fine. Stroke your own ego.

Do yo disagree that that some chips are intentionally degraded? Or that some CPU packages are intentionally degraded?

In the past, some chips may have part of the stricture that fails, so they are electrically removed, and sold as a lesser product. At times, they even purposely degraded perfect working units for proper supply ratios to demand. This is an undisputed fact.

What is wrong with now doing this is firmware? Giving the user the option to buy a CPU that is a few hundred dollars and upgrading for less than a hundred more later. It saves the user from replacing the entire CPU at a few hundred dollars.

Why are you complaining about this?

[Wild Cobra]

You're an idiot.

You're the guy who's asking for advice on what to buy in another thread from "real geeks" (because apparently you don't know enough about, gee, CAD to buy a computer to run it), and you think you can hold a serious discussion against ElNono?

What the is wrong with your brain? Seriously, how ed up in the head can you be to post this:

"I am looking at replacing it with the Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025. It has the i5 processor at 2.4 ghz. it has an 18.4" screen at 1680 x 945.

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow."

Because you don't know what you need processor/GPU-wise to run CAD, ING CAD applications, and then to summarily decide you know more about processors than a guy who has shown more intricate knowledge of computers than anyone in The Geek Forum, myself included?

"Hi, I'm Wild Cobra, I'll ask for your advice on a completely basic computer-purchasing issue and simultaneously tell you I know more about them than the people whose advice I'm asking for."

WC would probably walk up to Lance Armstrong and ask him what kind of road bike is good for a beginner, then tell him he's wrong for riding on a Trek frame with Bontrager wheels.

You have serious issues, dude. Your ego must be the size of ing Mars. I can't even fathom how warped your sense of self must be.

LOL @ using anything from 1994 to apply to today's systems over someone who's still actively in the field with applicable, demonstrable knowledge of modern computers.

You're the idiot when you cannot acknowledge I already pointed out, and that was a practice then, and that some of those tactics will remain today.

[Cry Havoc]