Science Saved My Soul

[Dr. Gonzo]

cool video. Seriously.

Im being told by the courts to attend NA/AA meetings and while I will not deny that I drink alot (I seriously do not do drugs at all, at least since highschool), there are some SERIOUS religious undertones to these meetings and it makes me REALLY uncomfortable being a non-believer and having to participate or go to jail.

I would GLADLY go to a meeting that is similar but without all the "spiritual" stuff being forced upon me. As it stands now, I dont know of an alternative that would appease the court, therefore I am talking to my attourney that if the courts cannot provide me with a non-spiritual alternative it is against my cons utional rights to force me to go.

Im not looking for a "get out of jail free" card. I simply want something without the MAJOR religious undertones that permiate NA/AA meetings. I shouldnt be forced to accept a "higher power" if I dont believe in one.

Im sure people are going to jump on this like flies on but just look at it from my point of view for a minute before you respond.

Look up the 12 steps of AA/NA, specifically step 3, and tell me how that pertains to an "athiest" and how it does not affect their religious beliefs in accordance to the cons ution.

AA/NA is anonymous s by default... The courts cant call and ask if Im showing up. I could easily get my freaking bartender to sign his name on the sheet they give me and it wont matter one lick. Its ANONYMOUS!! they dont keep records of who shows up.

I dont want to do that.

but I also dont want to be forced into meetings where its a requirement to "believe in a higher power, however you might believe in that higher power".

I DONT believe in a higher power..... Where does that leave me?

seriously... read this as if you did not believe in any higher power, and tell me how Im supposed to react.

These are the 12 steps of AA/NA

1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7.Humbly asked Him (God) to remove our shortcomings.

8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

When I went into a 12-step program, I had trouble with the whole "God" thing as well. Two years and almost 3 months into my sobriety, I realized that I don't believe in God as many people see it. I believe in a higher power which is not a creator, all-knowing en y or any religious icon. My higher power is simply energy. I believe that energy fills entire universe and everything that exists. This energy never ever dies so I put my belief into that. I lean on that energy to keep me sober. As long as I believe in energy I too believe that it can give me the strength to stay clean.

That being said, when I did start my recovery I decided to take a leap and change some of the beliefs I had during my drinking in order to help me with my drinking problem. My way of thinking was wrong so I had to correct it. I swallowed some pride and decided to give the higher power thing an honest chance. So far it has worked. I can't really say if it will work forever, or even tomorrow, but it is working right now and for today it will keep me sober.

[DisAsTerBot]

When I went into a 12-step program, I had trouble with the whole "God" thing as well. Two years and almost 3 months into my sobriety, I realized that I don't believe in God as many people see it. I believe in a higher power which is not a creator, all-knowing en y or any religious icon. My higher power is simply energy. I believe that energy fills entire universe and everything that exists. This energy never ever dies so I put my belief into that. I lean on that energy to keep me sober. As long as I believe in energy I too believe that it can give me the strength to stay clean.

That being said, when I did start my recovery I decided to take a leap and change some of the beliefs I had during my drinking in order to help me with my drinking problem. My way of thinking was wrong so I had to correct it. I swallowed some pride and decided to give the higher power thing an honest chance. So far it has worked. I can't really say if it will work forever, or even tomorrow, but it is working right now and for today it will keep me sober.

the force is strong in this one...

[The Reckoning]

When I went into a 12-step program, I had trouble with the whole "God" thing as well. Two years and almost 3 months into my sobriety, I realized that I don't believe in God as many people see it. I believe in a higher power which is not a creator, all-knowing en y or any religious icon. My higher power is simply energy. I believe that energy fills entire universe and everything that exists. This energy never ever dies so I put my belief into that. I lean on that energy to keep me sober. As long as I believe in energy I too believe that it can give me the strength to stay clean.

same here. except instead of energy my higher power is interaction. nothing could have existed without some sort of interaction.

[DarkReign]

I thought that was a pretty bad-ass video. I have no gift for literation, but the beauty and awe I experience observing the universe inspires a sort of...disconnect from myself.

Tough to explain. I get excited, unlike any excitement I experience otherwise, this giddy, playful, inspirational exuberance that doesnt happen at any other time.

I think its because so much is unknown, that makes it new and virgin. Whereas religion takes all the fun out of discovery in the most simplistic, rudimentary and (tbh) unrewarding fashion possible.

Nothing, to me, spells hopelessness and isolation quite like "God did it".

OT: Bought a telescope today. ing clouds are killing my buzz.

[phyzik]

When I went into a 12-step program, I had trouble with the whole "God" thing as well. Two years and almost 3 months into my sobriety, I realized that I don't believe in God as many people see it. I believe in a higher power which is not a creator, all-knowing en y or any religious icon. My higher power is simply energy. I believe that energy fills entire universe and everything that exists. This energy never ever dies so I put my belief into that. I lean on that energy to keep me sober. As long as I believe in energy I too believe that it can give me the strength to stay clean.

That being said, when I did start my recovery I decided to take a leap and change some of the beliefs I had during my drinking in order to help me with my drinking problem. My way of thinking was wrong so I had to correct it. I swallowed some pride and decided to give the higher power thing an honest chance. So far it has worked. I can't really say if it will work forever, or even tomorrow, but it is working right now and for today it will keep me sober.

So you didnt have to do the whole "Our father, who art in heaven" prayer at the end of every meeting?

I dont believe in a higher power at all.

Regardless to say, my attourney is asking some P.O. friends of his if they know of an alternative, if not he is approaching the judge to see what they say.

Anyway, I wont deny that AA is effective... Besides all the religious stuff, hearing other peoples stories and being able to relate to them IS pretty liberating. I will continue to go until I hear back from my attourney. I've been advised to keep my mouth shut in the group in regards to my beliefs so thats what Im doing.

The thing thats helping me most though is outpatient therapy that I have to do every wednesday. The guy that runs that group, and the group themselves, are pretty ing cool. Its run by this guy named Ray Miller. A former alchoholic and cocain addict.

[xellos88330]

I like the video. He is what I would call a "true" atheist.

1. He didn't say that "God doesn't exist!"
2. He was open to the possibility of a higher power.
3. He understands that one of the fundamentals of science is exploring EVERY possibility. Is God possible? Can God exist? Sure he can, but he would like to see how.

Atheism isn't just rejecting the idea that God can exist. It is embracing the fact that he could. Without the question or search for God, a lot of science and technology wouldn't exist. God is the ultimate question which in turn grants us all the power to speculate and advance our minds and capablities.

[xellos88330]

Here is something that could help you Phyzik.

If you believe that you can get over the alcoholism, then you are the one that holds the higher power. Faith doesn't just have to do with hocus pocus, but with what you can accomplish with the proper application of what you believe you are capable of.

Be your own higher power.

[phyzik]

Here is something that could help you Phyzik.

If you believe that you can get over the alcoholism, then you are the one that holds the higher power. Faith doesn't just have to do with hocus pocus, but with what you can accomplish with the proper application of what you believe you are capable of.

Be your own higher power.

Thats pretty much the approach I've been taking, along with help from friends.

For example, on the weekends, I go with a friend downtown and ride bycicles almost 20 miles round trip. Im suprised Im able to still do that much.

I used to bike ride ALOT, offroad mostly, and I would like to get back into that physical shape. My physical appearance isnt much different from what I looked like back then.... I dont have a beer gut or anything (ok, maybe a slight one ).... its just the conditioning really.

[xellos88330]

Thats pretty much the approach I've been taking, along with help from friends.

For example, on the weekends, I go with a friend downtown and ride bycicles almost 20 miles round trip. Im suprised Im able to still do that much.

I used to bike ride ALOT, offroad mostly, and I would like to get back into that physical shape. My physical appearance isnt much different from what I looked like back then.... I dont have a beer gut or anything (ok, maybe a slight one ).... its just the conditioning really.

Physical activity is paramount in recovery.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to you man, but it looks like you won't need much of it.