It won't if he only takes Jackson's minutes. Johnson if versatile enough to play the minutes of currently ineffective players like Q and Barbosa, however, so he could indeed make a difference if he plays better in their stead.I think Joe Johnson and Jim Jackson put up about the same numbers. I think he wont make much difference.
I don't think his return will make a difference at all. His injury was severe. He had surgery and his fracture is not yet healed. The swelling may be down one day and return the next. His vision may not be that impaired, but his confidence to drive in the lane will be.
Barbosa is the back-up point, neither JJs play point. They could bench Q, but you still have Q, Barbosa, and Hunter off the bench.
Again, the Sun's biggest problem is they can't slow the spurs one iotta. Just wait till Duncan is healthy.
Johnson has.neither JJs play point.You'd think that with 7 points in 42 minutes, they would've played someone else if they could've.They could bench Q
I don't think Joe Johnson will be willing to take it to the rack coming off his injury and will be reduced to a jumpshooter.
Last edited by SpursFanInAustin; 05-23-2005 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Spelling
JJ is the Suns back up poing guard and leading man in minutes played. Most of the people on this site are not giving JJ any credit.
Robinson is better than JJ. JJ will not make a difference. JJ can only hit wide open shots.
JJ is the Suns 3rd leading scorer for the season. One of the best 3 point shooters in the league percentage wise. He gives the Suns another offensive creator with the ball. He plays good defense. His importance to the team is great and should not be underrated.
His injury may slow him a little bit during the 1st game. But Rip and Lebron James didn't seem to slow down after breaking their noses and being forced to wear masks. One could argue that they played better.
JJ's injury is obviously worse than a broken nose. But do not discredit his value to the team. His return is much needed and will give the Suns an extra guy on the bench when he returns to the starting lineup.
Well said.
Johnson is their Manu.
Recognize.
As I said before, Jim has filled in very well for Joe. Suns didn't miss Joe in any significant sense. As was noted in this forum, Jim as a great pickup for the Suns.
And Joe won't be a game-changer when he's back @SBC, where he got only 9 pts in the 21-pt blowout 28 Dec. (and Quentin got only 2).
Just because Jackson equaled normal Joe Johnson production doesn't mean he won't make a difference. For one thing, you can't expect that type of game from Jackson every night... But the main reason is that Jackson becomes the option off the bench instead of Barbosa. And the less Barbosa has to play, the better for the Suns.
Johnson will also likely guard Parker, something Jackson couldn't do. Some of you are in for a rude awakening.
I think your point about Jackson not being able to do that every night is incompatible with your point about a "rude awakening."
If Jackson's performance in Game 1 was a suitable facsimile of what Johnson would provide on offense, and the Spurs won anyway, then they aren't going to be caught unprepared by Johnson's contribution. If Jackson were going to drop off, that would impact future games. It has nothing to do with what happened in Game 1. Do you see the logical fallacy?
Now the point that having Johnson in the lineup keeps Barbosa on the bench seems valid. Barbosa was awful. You remember the Suns gave the Spurs a first-round pick for him that turned into Nazr as part of the Malik trade, right? HAHAHAHA
Yesterday, having Johnson would've likely meant less Barbosa and Q, not Jackson.
In my opinion, the suggestion that Joe Johnson will not make a difference implies that the Suns are just as well off with Jackson starting every game... and my point was that Johnson would make a difference because Jackson probably wouldn't have that kind of game on Tuesday if Johnson was not available.It has nothing to do with what happened in Game 1. Do you see the logical fallacy?
Joe's a good player, and hope he comes back 100%. No to say you're doing this, but I hate to hear teams make excuses. Same goes with the Spurs, if they lose and then the other team beat 'em or like I like to put it the spurs gave them the series.
On a similar note, has there ever been a debate about two people with more generic names than Jim Jackson and Joe Johnson?
OK, that makes sense.
The notion that Joe Johnson makes no difference for the Suns is just wishful thinking on the part of homer fans. You know Spurs fans. After every win, they think the team will win the next thousand games and nobody has a chance, and everybody on the other team sucks, and after every loss they say the Spurs are going to get swept from here on out, and Duncan is the new C-Webb.
There is no question Jim Jackson has filled in nicely for JJ. But JJ is their starting shooting guard. Again read my post above for some of JJ accolades and importance to the team.
With JJ suited up and playing, that means Jim Jackson comes off of the bench. Meaning a better bench, more production, and more importanly more rest for the starters.
Arguing that the Suns are ok without JJ is really a position nobody should take. NO team is better or the same w/o their starting 2 guard. NO team is better w/o their 3rd leading scorer. NO team is better w/o their leader in minutes played. NO team is better w/o one of their best creators offensively. NO team is better w/o one of their best on ball defenders. NO team is better w/o one of the top 3 point shooters in the game.
NO team. Not the Suns. Not the Spurs. Not the Heat. Not the Pistons.
With JJ missing it's equivalent to the Spurs w/o Manu, the Heat w/o Eddie Jones, and the Pistons w/o Rip. While each team probably does and should have a player that can fill that role, none are better for it or will play the same.
But Suns did just fine against Mavs without Joe. And excellent adjustment by the Suns and Jim stepped up.
Joe just ain't gonna make that much difference vs Jim.
The Suns 3G game just doesn't work against the "playoff" Spurs. Sunday wasn't the first game the Suns, or anybody, has shot much fewer 3Gs than their avg.
If the Suns hopes are hinging on Joe being back for 2 games @SBC, the hopes are false, will be dashed.
Their season doesn't depend on JJ's return.
You are right they were able to secure victory w/o JJ against the Mavs. But likely the series would've gone 5 and not 6.
Again you are not considering the fact that Jim Jackson would come in off of the bench. The Suns need bench production and rest for their starters.
I don't want to sound repe ive but.....
Is rest and bench production important to the Suns?
Is a 8 man rotation better than a 7 man rotation?
Does a team need it's 3rd leading scorer?
Does a team needs it's leader in minutes played?
Does a team need a good on ball defender?
Does a team need one of the best 3 point shooters in the game?
An answer of yes to one or more the questions simply should put a stop the Suns not needing JJ.
It's not an excuse for a loss as suggested above. Every team should be prepared to play when a player is injured.
The argument is simply that the Suns will fair better with JJ than w/o.
And yes what a discussion to have about two commonly simple names. That's really funny.
I'll give you heat w/o jones, but the other two are way out of JJ league. But you don't have to tell spurs fans, we know the spurs only beat you guys because you are short handed.With JJ missing it's equivalent to the Spurs w/o Manu, the Heat w/o Eddie Jones, and the Pistons w/o Rip. .
the suns shot 49%, unless JJ can improve that to 60% it wont matter who plays for the suns
as long as the Spurs continue to play defense the suns have no chance at winning the series
and with every Spurs victory, the pressure on those young suns will only continue to increase to their breaking point
Or if JJ can do a better job on Tony Parker than Steve Nash. Safe bet he will.the suns shot 49%, unless JJ can improve that to 60% it wont matter who plays for the suns
JJ's importance to the Suns is the equivalent, like it or not.
JJ - 17 pts, 5 rbds, 3.6 assists, 1 steal, 47.8 3pt %, 39 minutes per game
Manu - 16 points, 4.5 rbds, 3.9 assists, 1.6 steals, 37.6 3 pt % 29 minutes per game
Rip - 18 pts, 3.9 rbds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 30.5 3 pt %, 38 mintues per game
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/player...gularseason/SG
CBS ranked the shooting guards.
5. JJ
7. Rip
11. Manu
Overall in the NBA
19. JJ
31. Rip
56. Manu
Apparently I'm not alone in this way of thinking.
wake up dude, there's not a GM in the world that would take JJ over Manu. But whatever makes this ass whopping more tolerable for you, spurs fans have heard it all before.
BTW, even by your own statistics Manu is far superior to JJ. Take those numbers per 48 mins. Also, Manu is the 2nd or 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs after two rounds.
To summarize:
Over the course of the series, the Suns are better off WITH Johnson than without.
In Game 1, Jim Jackson stepped up nicely.
It is very common in the NBA, when a player is out, to have somebody else step up and fill that role in a particular game. What you can't count on is having that role filled night in and night out.
It is folly to think that Johnson would make no difference for Phoenix.
I think it also folly to think that Johnson would represent a significant upgrade over the performance Jackson gave in Game 1. Suns fans should not count on that. What they should count on is the inevitable dropoff in production at the 2 that would happen eventually if Johnson continues to sit. Given that the Spurs won Game 1 even with Jackson playing so well, the Suns would be hard-pressed to win the series in that case. They need Johnson back.
What Johnson provides that was missing is not so much shooting the ball from the perimeter, since Jackson did that just fine, as in backing up Steve Nash at the point MUCH better than Barbosa, and in having at least a prayer of keeping Tony Parker away from the rim.
Joe Johnson is not the X-factor that would swing the series back in Phoenix's favor, but as short as their bench is, they need him back to compete effectively.
Johnson will be big for the Suns if he is able to return to form, and has been a key for them ever since the Marbury trade. It's short-sighted to think that he won't make things more difficult for the Spurs. That said, he's not going to change the outcome of this series.
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