DREAM Act comes to an end in Senate

[TeyshaBlue]

lol @ "White people watch out!"

http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights...ils-the-senate

[TheSullyMonster]

I'm not saying you should. Point is, the whole concept that illegal aliens do the work that americans won't is shear bull , ignorance,

Sure. I'll bet somebody is about to call me racist, but when I was in NW Washington(Twilight country), I was surprised to see white people doing manual labor and construction, etc.

On the other hand, Denver Parks & Recreation had to go import some Mexicans on temporary visas because the legal, local people called in too much or quit too often, circa 2003 when I lived there.

It's called supply and demand. If an employer cannot find help at the wages offered, he has to raise the wages.

Assuming there is revenue to support that, sure. Or the employer lowers their services/products offered. I'm sure some industries with heavy illegal presence have slim profit margins.

As long as ignoramuses like yourself accept the bull of bringing in lesser paid people who are more desperate,

That's supply and demand too! I love that principle, it means I'll be making pretty good money as an engineer, because there is a finite supply of them, and generally, more engineering jobs than there are engineers(if you're willing to travel/relocate)!

then we will continue having a population that does not work, who could. At better wages too because of the reality of supply and demand pricing if we stopped flooding the labor pool with low skilled workers.

That's assuming infinite revenue and profit margins that support legal employees again!

We need more tax payers. Not more tax users.

Though that would help, definitely.

I'm sorry, but we don't need more low skilled workers. We already have an overage of that here. We need to make them work these hard jobs, and stop subsidizing their existence if they are not willing to.

Mostly agreed.

[Wild Cobra]

Sully, I don't know what to say. You are apparently OK with people who come from a lower living standard, working traditionally good paying jobs at a cut rate, lowering everyone's standard of living.

you, get the out of this great nation. Move elsewhere.

[admiralsnackbar]

Sully, I don't know what to say. You are apparently OK with people who come from a lower living standard, working traditionally good paying jobs at a cut rate, lowering everyone's standard of living.

you, get the out of this great nation. Move elsewhere.

I notice you still haven't provided any response to the specifics of the bill, Cobra, just your usual over-heated emo crypto-racist bull , so yourself, howsabout? Get the out of this great thread and move to Stormwatch or something where the level of discourse is more appropriate for people who like to talk out of their ass to placate their bruised sensibilities about a vanished America that never existed?

[Wild Cobra]

I notice you still haven't provided any response to the specifics of the bill, Cobra, just your usual over-heated emo crypto-racist bull , so yourself, howsabout? Get the out of this great thread and move to Stormwatch or something where the level of discourse is more appropriate for people who like to talk out of their ass to placate their bruised sensibilities about a vanished America that never existed?

The bill allows citizenship with so many ways not to serve. It's just a ploy to make you lib s wet your pants. Here is a sample from the bill:

(3) HARDSHIP EXCEPTION.—The Secretary of Homeland Security may, in the Secretary’s discretion, extend the conditional nonimmigrant status of an alien if the alien—

(A) satisfies the requirements of subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C) of paragraph (1);

(B) demonstrates compelling cir stances for the inability to complete the requirements described in paragraph (1)(D); and

(C) demonstrates that the alien’s removal from the United States would result in exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to the

If you had any integrity, you would know what you were talking about, but I doubt you are even smart enough to understand how big of a loophole this one, and others, are.

I suggest you read the text yourself before saying I'm wrong.

H.R. 5281

Take all exceptions out, make all serve who want the citizenship, and I can go for it.

[admiralsnackbar]

Try reading my original post before you make me say again that you haven't said anything to address your non-points. I started from a premise that you shouldn't have to serve if you are educated, because being educated already suggests much about the ability and/or existing wealth of applicants. You seriously want to turn away taxable, skilled and/or wealthy potential citizens?

And when has anybody on this board not been smart enough to bat your "positions" around like a ball of developmentally challenged yarn?

[boutons_deux]

That's right, too stupid to understand the reality of what I say, so call me a bigot.

Shows your utter lack of wisdom.

I call you what you are, a close-minded, ideologically fantasizing xenophobic bigot

I have utter fullness of accuracy

[boutons_deux]

Illegal is illegal is illegal is illegal! I don't care if the parents brought them here when they were young - the parents broke the law, and now EVERYONE must suffer the consequences. This was amnesty - and the majority of people in this country don't want any part of it.

Give me a call when you rail against 10s of 1000s of super wealthy Americans evading taxes, ie illegal, with overseas accounts the way you hate the illegality of impoverished, non-criminal illegals and their kids.

You selective enforcement of the law betrays your racism and the profound depth of your Bible-thumping "Christianity".

[ChuckD]

Bull .

Who built the interstate systems?

Who built Hover dam?

Who were the men of steel who built skyscrapers before modern equipment?

Union workers. Once the unions were broken under Reagan and the pay went down, so did the incentive to do dangerous or menial work.

[Duff McCartney]

Bull .

Who built the interstate systems?

Who built Hover dam?

Who were the men of steel who built skyscrapers before modern equipment?

You don't know what you are talking about. Americans have busted their asses for years.

Are you all for the pussification of America?

Yep... I see your hand raised.

I would say it was done by any willing worker. Not strictly Americans.

Hey, I did it as a child, my mother did it, her sisters did it?

What the is wrong with you thinking Americans won't work hard. Maybe it's just you generation. If so, you will be part of the cause of breaking this nations bank.

you.

You are a clueless idiot when it comes to some things.

What is it? Think your generation is too good for manual labor?

I don't see how not doing manual labor is for the pussification of America. If anything I think you are what's wrong with this nation holding on to outdated ideals and antiquated notions about what does or doesn't cons ute a person.

Americans will work hard, if they have no other alternative. But they won't if they can get some illegal to work for pennies for it. Take off your ridiculous patriotic glasses and see the world for what it really is. This country has not and will not ever be built by the best and the baddest. It was built by the desperate and the willing...all those projects you so gladly pointed out were built by Depression era folks who had no other work.

[CuckingFunt]

You are apparently OK with people who come from a lower living standard, working traditionally good paying jobs at a cut rate, lowering everyone's standard of living.

When has picking fruit ever been a good paying job?

[Wild Cobra]

When has picking fruit ever been a good paying job?

They do far more than that. They are talking away traditionally good paying jobs like construction, lowering the standard wages for such jobs.

[TheSullyMonster]

Sully, I don't know what to say. You are apparently OK with people who come from a lower living standard, working traditionally good paying jobs at a cut rate, lowering everyone's standard of living.

I hate to break it to you, but that's pretty much the history of America.

You and I have different ideas of what a 'good' paying job is, I think. The vast majority of people making what I consider good money aren't dodging INS, they're skilled or educated, partnered with brains or tenacity(the people who have both make better than good money).

Do I think illegals lower the average wage for unskilled and semi-skilled work, when they're in large supply? Yes.

Do I think that things like home renovation, lawnscaping and construction are definitely things affected by this? Yes.

But lets not kid ourselves, even without illegals in the picture, these jobs aren't making good money. Adequate? Sure. But being two paychecks away from poverty isn't good money. I'm ignoring people like the specialty orthopedic surgeon I worked for, who was making 500k+ a year net, and still living paycheck to paycheck.

I would be intensely interested to see what happens if all illegals were magically deported one day, just to see what would happen economically.

I'm just not living in some land populated by unicorns and fairies thinking that there won't be impacts both major and minor in our lives.

Do you honestly think that companies going 'welp, I gotta pay people $5 more per hour and give them benefits.' isn't going to have an impact in services offered, and the price of those services?

you, get the out of this great nation. Move elsewhere.

I have lived elsewhere, out of state, out of country and on different continents. I like it in Texas and I like the people I know here, so I decided to come back and put down some roots for a bit, thanks for the welcome.

But if it helps you any, I fully intend on traveling and living abroad in the future. There are great places other than the US as well, you know.

[ChuckD]

They do far more than that. They are talking away traditionally good paying jobs like construction, lowering the standard wages for such jobs.

FAIL. Wages were lowered by union-busting corps starting under Reagan. Don't blame the Mex's if they're the only ones wanting to do back-busting work for peanuts.

[Wild Cobra]

FAIL. Wages were lowered by union-busting corps starting under Reagan. Don't blame the Mex's if they're the only ones wanting to do back-busting work for peanuts.

off you stupid idiot. That is not the cause of the current crisis. There are previsions of immigration in the cons ution for a reason. It you don't understand the extra supply of illegal immigrants changing the natural supply and demand nature of wages, then you are too ing lame to debate. It is true that some jobs have a hard time attracting workers, the employer then increases the wages enough to get the necessary workers.

[boutons_deux]

St Ronnie, patron saint of the VRWC, started the union busting with air traffic controllers, a formal signal that the corporate war on employees was officially approved and initiated, and the POTUS was the commanding general.

In parallel, was St Ronnie's huge lie, aka Repug SOP, and fundamental "principle" that "govt is the problem", distracting from the fact that Americans and America are really most threatened by corporations/employers, NOT by govt

Since St Ronnie sat his Hollywood-fake wealthy ass in the Oval office, median wage has stagnated, at best, while corporate exec income as skyrocketed to 100s of times the avg US wage, with compenstation of ften fully detached from exec/corporate performance.

Illegals working for wages or stolen wages for work is not what has stagnated US median wage. It's union busting and globabilization of moving US jobs offshore, which used to intimidate US workers into STFU.

[Parker2112]

BD, the corps you hate own the govt you claim is the answer.

If you walked into a house and all the women had adam's apples, would you still let them service you?

The govt is sporting a sizeable bulge buddy. Watch out as to what position you take on the bed...and rest assured big corps are watching from the peephole and ready to take their cut from your fee.

[Parker2112]

off you stupid idiot. That is not the cause of the current crisis. There are previsions of immigration in the cons ution for a reason. It you don't understand the extra supply of illegal immigrants changing the natural supply and demand nature of wages, then you are too ing lame to debate. It is true that some jobs have a hard time attracting workers, the employer then increases the wages enough to get the necessary workers.

immigration is only a small percent of the problem...conservatives sold this country out by shipping jobs across the globe. THAT is the compe ion that dealt the fatal blow. The immigration issue is a red herring fed to you by conservatives who dont want your eye on their backstabbing ways...

[TheSullyMonster]

off you stupid idiot. That is not the cause of the current crisis.

What particular crisis are you referring to?

There are previsions of immigration in the cons ution for a reason.

It was my understanding it only touched on naturalization, actually. I'll read it again this weekend, but if you know the citation, share it?

It is true that some jobs have a hard time attracting workers, the employer then increases the wages enough to get the necessary workers.

And again, you assume there is an infinite money pool to support higher wages.

[CosmicCowboy]

immigration is only a small percent of the problem...conservatives sold this country out by shipping jobs across the globe. THAT is the compe ion that dealt the fatal blow. The immigration issue is a red herring fed to you by conservatives who dont want your eye on their backstabbing ways...

at you showing your ignorance.

The global economy is hardly a liberal/conservative issue.

The same bandwidth that allows you to post dumb on a message board allows jobs to be outsourced to the cheapest location.

[spursncowboys]

Union workers. Once the unions were broken under Reagan and the pay went down, so did the incentive to do dangerous or menial work.

unions weren't always there. once the socialists came in and brought unions. paying everyone a flatrate regardless of their work ability seems like less incentive than... well... what exactly are you talkinng about thatreagan did?

[spursncowboys]

at you showing your ignorance.

The global economy is hardly a liberal/conservative issue.

The same bandwidth that allows you to post dumb on a message board allows jobs to be outsourced to the cheapest location.

Not to mention other countries selliing a better product, like microwaves and cars, than the American counterpart. It's always about cheap labor, although that is a problem too.

[George Gervin's Afro]

unions weren't always there. once the socialists came in and brought unions. paying everyone a flatrate regardless of their work ability seems like less incentive than... well... what exactly are you talkinng about thatreagan did?

can you translate this into a coherent thought? Uniosn were originally introduced to guarantee worker safety and fair pay... is that socialism to you?

[spursncowboys]

can you translate this into a coherent thought? Uniosn were originally introduced to guarantee worker safety and fair pay... is that socialism to you?

unions came in by socialists. its a form of price manipulation. jst like cartels and monopolies. all bad. what do you need translated?

[balli]

unions came in by socialists. its a form of price manipulation. jst like cartels and monopolies. all bad. what do you need translated?

Jesus, what a ing dimwad.

You are the most dumb piece of , in the history of pieces of .