Amare's final block

[Dingle Barry]

Awesome play by Stoudemire. Crying about officiating after the Spurs' performance tonight is ing lame.

[Sense]

The Spurs were suppose to play and they didnt...

Parker and Duncan were terrible..ginobili was as awesome as always..

So Duncan and Parker better step their up..

I blame them.

[Pandaemonaeon]

They didn't call it against Sacramento, why would they start calling it now?

[Dingle Barry]

I am used to and can deal with Parker playing like in the playoffs. Tim, on the other hand, is not acceptable.

[Catharsis]

JESUS!! CyberBob just posted why it isn't a goaltend.

It was legal--accept it and stop whining.

[SouthernFried]

The ball was still in Duncans hand...that is not goal tending.

What it was, was a freakin' amazing block. Give props when props are due...Amare was a monster tonite. If he ever decides to play D full time, he will be the dominant player in the league.

Spurs in 6

[mavsfan1000]

That call was so hard to see in fast motion. Most refs would miss a call like that because I didn't notice it until instant replay. It's unfortunate that they missed it.

[SirChaz]

It was the right call.

Read the Exception. Timmy's hand was still on the ball it is a legal block.

The only way it can be goaltending on a dunk like that is if Amare put his hand up through the cylinder which he did not.

[GSH]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.

[pjjrfan]

I don't know the rule, but what the , it didn't get called, and if you ask me Amare just kicked ass the whole game, and if he was playing good before, I'm thinking he is going to be a handful the rest of the way.

[HB22inSA]

I thought it was one of a block.

[SirChaz]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.

If the offensive player can touch the ball in the cylinder and the offensive player's hand has not left the ball, then it has to be legal for the defensive player to touch the ball in that situation as well.

There was no goaltend. If it was then it is always illegal to block a dunk attempt and that is not the true.

[GSH]

Did y'all even bother to read what CyberBob quoted?

THat's the rule. , Duncan did the same thing against Denver vs. KMart, and did it last series against Jermaine, if you think those were clean then you need to quit whining about Amare's block.

There were plenty of other Amare infractions to be pissed about, this wasn't one of them.

As always, AHP, you're about a step slow. Instead of reading CyberBob's post, you should have taken the time to read (and understand) the rule. I know I answered it a minute ago, but I'll say it again just for you, because you always have to take your at ude with people.

The exception states that it is OK for a player near his own basket - in other words, the offensive player. Which makes it OK for a player to make a dunk, and touch the rim afterwards. It doesn't make it OK for a defensive player to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder.

You want to take an at ude with people, at least take the time to do your homework first, so that you'll know what you're talking about.

[Rick Von Braun]

It was the right call.

Read the Exception. Timmy's hand was still on the ball it is a legal block.

The only way it can be goaltending on a dunk like that is if Amare put his hand up through the cylinder which he did not.

That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.

[rm13]

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.
i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.

Subsection b) of the rule clearly states that a player cannot touch the ball while it is above the basket ring, and within the "cylinder". The exception to rule a) is what allows a player to dunk, to begin with. Back in the old days, dunks were illegal - technically it is offensive goaltending. They had to specifically allow dunks.

It's OK to block someone attempting a dunk, even though the ball is technically moving downward towards the basket - subsection g) doesn't apply. The rationalization is that it is not a shot yet, because it hasn't left the offensive player's hand.

BUT... it isn't OK to touch the ball while it is in the cylinder, except while making a dunk. Notice the wording on the exception - if a player is near his own basket. The only time it's OK to touch the ball or the rim while the ball is above the rim, and in the cylinder, is when you are making a dunk. There are no exceptions.

In practice, the refs call goaltending any time a player touches the rim while a shot is in the air. (Just the other night, Alonzo Mourning used the rim to give himself some extra lift to go up for a shot block. The ref called the goaltend without even looking to see if the ball had passed its peak and begun moving downwards.) Originally it was because of subsection i) that says you can't vibrate the rim to cause a shot to take an unnatural bounce. Now it's a call they just make irregardless.

It was OK for Amare to block a dunk, and he made a of a play. It's not a matter of whether he was "good" or "bad", and you can't take anything away from the athleticism it took to make the play. It's just one of those things that has to get called. The defensive player can't touch the ball or the rim while the ball is within the cylinder. (An offensive player can only do it if he is in the process of making a dunk.) I can't imagine an NBA ref refusing to make the call.

I understand what your saying but the thing is your own basket is the basket you are defending-so Amare was allowed because it was a continuation.

Oh and about the other guy saying that therefore the players are allowed to cover the whole basket with arms-it would not be leagal-because there would be no coninuation of touching the ball and it would just be randomly touching the rim which is goaltending.

[samikeyp]

It should be allowed on the effort alone. It was a of a play.

[FustinJelux]

The exception clearly states that Amare was not goaltending. It clearly says that if the offensive player's hand is "legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder"

Since Duncan's hand was still on the ball as it moved over the cyldiner, Amare was free to block it.

[Catharsis]

That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.

BULL !! You don't know what the you'rew talking about!

[Xolotl]

Is it just me or was somebody wishing Tim wouldve slammed it down with both hands, and, Amare's hand wouldve gone into the first row? Damn that boy is good.

[GSH]

If the offensive player can touch the ball in the cylinder and the offensive player's hand has not left the ball, then it has to be legal for the defensive player to touch the ball in that situation as well.

There was no goaltend. If it was then it is always illegal to block a dunk attempt and that is not the true.

No... that's you trying to apply your own logic. "Well if it's OK for the offensive player, it MUST be OK for the defensive player." But it's not what the rule says.

Read the rule, and what I said carefully. There are valid reasons for each part of the rule. They wanted to find a way to make dunks legal, so they wrote a rule for it. They didn't want to make it illegal for a player to try to block a dunk, so they used the part about it being on its downward "flight" - since the ball is in the player's hand, it isn't on its "flight". That makes blocking dunks legal.

But the exception... seriously, read it... says that it is OK for a player near his own basket. They put that in there for a very specific reason. The exception was designed to allow dunks. But they very explicitly wanted to make it illegal for a player to do what Stoudamire did tonight.

Slowly now - IT'S...NOT...OK...TO...BLOCK...A...BALL...WHILE... IT...IS...IN...THE...CYLINDER. EVER.

[SirChaz]

That is BS. If the ball is on the offensive player's hands, is it ok to cover the damn basket with your hands?

Based on your interpretation, it seems to be ok. Only if the player shots the ball is goal-tending based on what you are saying.

Next time someone goes for a dunk, the defensive players should cover the entire basket with hands, arms, etc... it is not goaltending, right?

Amare's hand was touching the rim and his palm was on top of the cylinder... this is an automatic goaltending.

Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.

[GSH]

The exception clearly states that Amare was not goaltending. It clearly says that if the offensive player's hand is "legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder"

Since Duncan's hand was still on the ball as it moved over the cyldiner, Amare was free to block it.

NOOOOO!!!!!

Damn! Everything in the rule is clear, and in there for a reason. The bit about "legally in contact with the ball"? There's a reason for that. It prevents "offensive interference". (Offensive goaltending.) How could a player's hand not be "legally in contact" with the ball? IF THE BALL WAS ALREADY IN THE CYLINDER WHEN HE FIRST TOUCHED IT. So if a missed shot is bouncing on the rim, above the cylinder, an offensive player can't throw it down legally. If the ball bounces outside the cylinder, the exception makes it legal for him to grab it and dunk it, and touch the rim afterwards. (Just like any other dunk.)

Think about the rules, and the reasons for them. They really do make sense.

[timvp]

Clean block.

Move on.

[Catharsis]

No... that's you trying to apply your own logic. "Well if it's OK for the offensive player, it MUST be OK for the defensive player." But it's not what the rule says.

Read the rule, and what I said carefully. There are valid reasons for each part of the rule. They wanted to find a way to make dunks legal, so they wrote a rule for it. They didn't want to make it illegal for a player to try to block a dunk, so they used the part about it being on its downward "flight" - since the ball is in the player's hand, it isn't on its "flight". That makes blocking dunks legal.

But the exception... seriously, read it... says that it is OK for a player near his own basket. They put that in there for a very specific reason. The exception was designed to allow dunks. But they very explicitly wanted to make it illegal for a player to do what Stoudamire did tonight.

Slowly now - IT'S...NOT...OK...TO...BLOCK...A...BALL...WHILE... IT...IS...IN...THE...CYLINDER. EVER.

First, Amare made contact with the ball BEFORE it was over the cylinder. Second, the ball has to be RELEASED to be considered falling. The exception of "over the cylinder" is if the offensive player is still touching the ball. It was a clean, legal block.

THE..KEY...IS...HE...MADE...CONTACT...BEFORE...THE ...BALL...WAS...OVER...THE...CYLINDER

[Catharsis]

NOOOOO!!!!!

How could a player's hand not be "legally in contact" with the ball? IF THE BALL WAS ALREADY IN THE CYLINDER WHEN HE FIRST TOUCHED IT.

Amare made contact BEFORE it was over the cylinder. I've seen the replay 10 times. That makes it legal.