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Maybe it helps Rose's case that he has been the constant presence in Chicago since Noah and Boozer has been in an out of the season.
I agree, he's not as a clear cut choice like Lebron was in the past with Cleveland, but he's the strongest candidate nonetheless. There are a lot of factors contributing to the Bulls success, as someone already pointed out, defense is a big one, and the coaching as well. They also have a very solid group of supporters and the front court is one of the best in the league (Deng, Boozer, Noah). But you're gonna have arguments like these for any candidate....except with Lebron last year playing with a bunch of scrubs.
Another reason Manu or any other sole Spur deserves it....the Spurs success this year can be attributed to a ton of factors.
Maybe it helps Rose's case that he has been the constant presence in Chicago since Noah and Boozer has been in an out of the season.
If Chicago wants to win another championship then they need a guy like Lebron. Rose can give them guaranteed playoff appearances but they're not going to win a championship with Rose as the main focal point.
Check the past championship teams rfor the last 20 years.
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan
Kobe
Pierce
Jordan
Billups was the anomaly, but other than that, I don't think Rose will be on any of those guys level.
The real question is who's coach of the year. Pop or Thibs? I'm going with Pops, but Thibs has done a fantastic job. Too bad he turned the Hornets even though they offered him more money than the Bulls.
Thibs. This Chicago success has Thibs written all over it.
He has alot of potential. He's still very young. He would be a senior in college right now. He has superior athleticism and he's improving as perimeter shooting. Again, I can't put Lebron on those guys level either. He doesn't have a reliable go-to move to score late in games, doesn't have a reliable mid-range game, post-game, or perimeter game. Again, I'm not sure if Lebron could lead this team to a championship because he hasn't proven to consistently take over games late against elite teams. He's a great regular season player and puts up monster stats, but can he win a game 4 at Boston with a hook shot at the buzzer, or a Game 1 Finals on a pull-up jumper, etc.
Thibodeau is the runaway COY this year. SA's success has been largely in part of their health and an emergence of a shock troop. Pop's coaching has been always there.
Hornets78, I think Lebron has what it takes, but one guy can only do so much. People don;t remember all of LBJ's heroics? The GW shot against Orlando? His historic ECF 48 point performance against the Pistons in 2007? Carrying the pathetic ass Cleveland Cavaliers with Larry Hughes as his second option to the Finals?
Jordan's career was eerily similar to Lebron before Pippen and Ho Grant grew some balls. The Bulls were being pummelled repeatedly by the Pistons too. Problem is Lebron quit on the Cavs a season too early IMO.
Dirk is way underrated in the MVP race this year. There's a shot that the Mavs would be in contention for the #1 seed out West if he doesn't go down with that injury.
No disrespect to whoever wins, but Nate McMillian deserves a mention for always having to work through countless injuries. Last year, he was deserving a well.
alvarez is on the money. If it went to the best player then Kobe would have more than 1 ...if it went to the most dominant player Lebron would going fo r the 3 peat no doubt about it. But as you pointed out the media sometimes rewards players for "imapct" (Nash) they pick someone else because of "fatigue" (Malone) and sometimes they give it to someome becaus ethey have been ignored for too long (Shaq, kobe, KG) or because they have been the most dominant player on a team that over achieves record-wise (Iverson, Dirk and this year probably rose).I see who believes a lame assseason from a player deserves the award when another player as been equally as good and probably believes Lebron deserves it because he has the ball in his hands 75% of the time who runs a terrible half court offense...despite having a high assist average.
I like Lebron's game, I've been a fan for some time, but Rose as the only big time star on the Bulls (compared to 3 in Miami) is taking that team to an unexpected level, and he's still improving. Lebron won the last 2, deservedly so, but I think Rose makes a strong case, stronger than Lebron in Miami. Their (Miami's) own expectations back in the summer and fall = championship.
I dont see why if MJ Shaq or Kobe could get snubbed when they were the most dominant player why can't Lebron? Great player one of the most dominant players I have seen ...but he aint GOD.
3rd wheels are not considered for MVP
/thread
Whatever your rankings Dirk deserves more cred by the media - Dallas is an 80% team with him and about a 50% without.
Kobe is the better shooter, but LeBron is the more complete player.
Kobe has rung, though, and LeBron has not.
it is without a doubt, rose
comparing the teams and their records, it's nonsense to say otherwise
It doesn't matter who wins regular season MVP anymore. The MVP award has already been irreversibly tarnished when Nash won two. Finals MVP is the most important award.
Whether or not this is true doesn't really affect this particular argument...the regular season MVP. See: LeBron and the Cavaliers. They weren't gonna win a championship either, yet LeBron was hands down the clear cut MVP of the league in those years he won it.
Rose is a deserving winner if he gets it. But I do think it's more well earned after a player has made his mark in the playoffs. I'd like to see Rose lead his team deep in the playoffs before winning an MVP. I know that's not a requirement to win and I know it's a regular season award, but that's just my opinion. I like seeing players earn their stripes before getting honored with an MVP. That said, I think he has a great chance to win it and I don't have a big problem with it.
Dirk is probably Rose's biggest compe ion, but I do think the way the Lakers have been rolling lately and if they continue to do so, Kobe has put his name back in the conversation. If the Lakers end up with a better record than Chicago, I think that might give some voters reason to give Kobe the nod, along with what I mentioned about Rose earning his stripes in the playoffs. Earlier this year, I would have given it to LeBron. But I think how the season has unfolded, despite his great statistical argument for the MVP, I think LeBron has become a tired personality to a lot of people outside of Miami and that that perception might hurt his campaign for a third MVP.
I know I'm not ready to put rose in the same category as lebron, wade, prime kobe, prime dirk, prime duncan, prime shaq, and even howard. Even nash's MVP years were slightly better than rose right now.
I considered Kobe for a moment also, but then I remembered he plays with Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom (6 man of year), and a great bench. In any case, I think the MVP award has to be better defined by the league, make it more well known what the criteria is. Because if you interpret it as the best player in the league...that's one legitimate interpretation of many. And then there is most valuable to that player's team, which is also held as the criteria by many. They are separate things.
Kobe has been having a great season, but IMO his team is way too stacked for him to win an MVP if it's interpreted how many of us are doing so in this thread. If we interpret the award purely considering who is the most valuable player to their specific team, I can't see how Dirk isn't the blatant #1 choice.
With Rose, there are some other factors. Either way, if Chicago keeps up this success and the core of the team for another few years, I don't see how Rose won't win it next year or the year after that, if he doesn't win this year.
Personally I hope Kobe gets another Finals MVP instead of a regular season one ...heck if "we" win It could be Pau, Odom or artest who cares?
As for Bron tough call. He obviously is the most dominant player when he is rolling. As amazing as he has been at times, usually the MVP steps up in the big games and comes up huge in the clutch ...in both Laker games it seems Wade and Bosh were the story same with the win over the spurs. Plus if you apply the Kobe has Pau/Odom/Bynum argument that hurts Lebron even more.
But for me the reason, i would put rose over Lebron (MVP only) is different. I just have set the bar so high for him that as IMPRESSIVE as he has been stat wise ...Im still waiting for him to go HAM to take that next level, to get his game back to the ECF vs. Pistons level and beyond.
Until he does or leads his team to a le tough for me to consider the MVP or even the unquestioned best player in the game ...even though I know he is or should be. Lebron's cieling should be a a combo Magic/MJ and for my tastes he doesnt give me enough of either.
But read what I just typed again Lebron has the talent and the gifts to be a combo of MJ/MAgic ... that is why some of us judge him harshly. but if and when he rings that changes it for himself and everyone else. but he needs to win and win multiples. Sure some will say it's Wade's team and that maybe true ...but Lebron is playing for bigger stakes TBH ...he is playing for a chance at GOAT status.
+1
With what Lebron has, his size, athleticism, talent...with pure dedication to the game, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able tot contend for GOAT status. His jumper is just way too inconsistent, and although he already works on it all the time most likely, it still doesn't show. Disappointing. A lot of his potential success is also limited by the mental side of the game..in game, and preparation. But that's just my opinion on the mental aspect, and it's something Kobe and MJ obviously don't lack.
MVP history: http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mvp.html
Your post reminds me of many of the reasons Bill Russell is vastly overrated nowadays. If you look carefully at Chamberlain and Russell and their team records, player stats, and MVP votes, you will see the following:
1) Player stats stayed consistent, year to year
2) Team records varied tremendously. Matter of fact, the worse Wilt's teams did, the fewer votes he received! Chamberlain didn't start really winning the MVP until his Sixers started getting a better record than Boston.
Yes, Kobe has a stacked team, exactly as Russell did; what, 4 hall of famers and 4 NBA top 50 at 50 years? No other team had close to that. C'mon, that explains the 11 les. Kobe was a better player 2005 to 2007 than today but didn't win MVP because of Lakers poor team record. Lakers had 2nd best record in 2008 and Boston with the better record had 3 superstars to split the votes, so Kobe got it. Chris Paul was in the hunt for turning New Orleans around, but that was his first breakout year, Kobe had been impressing for awhile and thus got the votes. LeBron truly deserved it the last two years, and the Cavs' record iced it.
Although the Lakers recent surge in their regular season results is putting Kobe back in the conversation, Derrick Rose has a similar record and the huge improvement in the Bulls results this year on his side. See Oscar Robertson's MVP season. They won a lot more games and that gave the Big-O the honor. Edge goes to Rose, it's his MVP award to lose. I also think the media wants to hype Chicago, a franchise nearly everyone remembers for constant greatness. They want to hype the Knicks as well, but their best years started in 1970 and ended in 1973. Finals appearances in 1994 and 1999, and before that the other years with Ewing, didn't really make a lasting impression.
MVP does not translate to "best players in the league", no matter how you slice it. Sometimes it does reveal the best player, but not always. Rose will probably get the MVP, but all contenders have their own MVP whom without, they wouldn't be in contention.
MVP is not all about stats. He deserves MVP without a doubt.
Magic and Bird won more than 20 years ago, and if you are including them, you left out Isiah/Dumars.
At this point, Rose is about as good as Pierce was in 08.
Also, for a Heat fan, I found it curious you left out Wade in this list. 06 Wade is far and away better than 08 Pierce, and comparable to/better than 05 and 07 Duncan/Ginobili/Parker, and 09 and 10 Kobe.
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