Health tab to hit $4.6 trillion in 2020

[ElNono]

Canada has shown that left or right has little to do with it. It's about being serious about addressing issues, and putting country over party.

[DarrinS]

Without Googling some bag's blog, what specific symptoms are showing up in the health care system in Germany?

I'm not just talking about health care (no Googling required)

[baseline bum]

Why are there still Germans applying to medical school?

Because they don't need to get in $150,000 worth of debt to do it there?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not just talking about health care (no Googling required)

Sorry, that's what the thread is about, and we were comparing it to Germany. If you don't know, just say so.

Because they don't need to get in $150,000 worth of debt to do it there?

Bingo.

[coyotes_geek]

That's what's already happening, only it filters through an apparently incredibly efficient bureaucracies of public and private health care providers and insurance companies.

Agreed.

We're already shifting the burden to the taxpayers in a major way. 1 in 10 americans don't have a job, and no coverage. They get sick the same. The elderly, who use the system the most for obvious reasons are already dumped by private insurance to the government. Add to that the undo ented and those that think they're too smart and don't need insurance, but have an accident or get sick just the same. The reality here is that we're already shouldering a lot. Might aswell pick up the rest, have Medicare control pricing with suppliers, like most other government-run services, raise some taxes if you have to, and provide the service.

If you don't want to go that far, then use a hybrid system (which I stated is my favorite). Have the government run some clinics and hospitals that provide 'basic' care (which is the basically the bulk of care), and let private insurance provide a supplemental service for the high end stuff, or concierge type of service, for the people that can afford it.

We're still left with the fundamental problem of everybody getting treated and not everybody having to pay. So all we're doing is just shuffling which inefficient system we want to funnel costs of the uninsured through. It's not a solution, it's doing something for the sake of being able to say we're doing something.

[DarrinS]

Sorry, that's what the thread is about, and we were comparing it to Germany. If you don't know, just say so.

Bingo.

What kind of health care system do the broke european countries have?

[ChumpDumper]

What kind of health care system do the broke european countries have?

You really want to avoid talking about Germany at all costs don't you?

[DarrinS]

You really want to avoid talking about Germany at all costs don't you?

Not t all. Do you want to talk about the massive spending cuts they had to make?

[ChumpDumper]

Not t all. Do you want to talk about the massive spending cuts they had to make?

Did you Google them?

[101A]

Completely anecdotal evidence re healthcare and Germany.

Last month our exchange student's grandparents came to visit him/us from Germany. His grandmother had some heart problems here, and went to the hospital.

According to grandparents far and away the best hospital/care they have ever received. Were stunned at the politeness, efficiency, speed and thoroughness of the experience.

[101A]

and here's a cool website with all kinds of statistics. The one in the link shows per capita GOVERNMENT expenditures on healthcare. The U.S. government, while covering about a half of its population STILL spends more per capita (whole population) than Canada, Germany, Great Britain, etc.....

[DarrinS]

and here's a cool website with all kinds of statistics. The one in the link shows per capita GOVERNMENT expenditures on healthcare. The U.S. government, while covering about a half of its population STILL spends more per capita (whole population) than Canada, Germany, Great Britain, etc.....

link?

[ElNono]

We're still left with the fundamental problem of everybody getting treated and not everybody having to pay. So all we're doing is just shuffling which inefficient system we want to funnel costs of the uninsured through. It's not a solution, it's doing something for the sake of being able to say we're doing something.

Uh? What I proposed would get rid of insurance for basic care. It would be taxpayer funded, much like medicare. As 101A pointed out, we already cover half of the population (with a bias towards the ones that need more care, the elderly). So we're already shouldering the bulk of the burden. Pick up the other, less risky half, and simply apply price/profits caps on providers, like most any other nation with a similar system already does. You might need to raise taxes a bit to compensate, but then again it would be offset by what insured people already get off their checks for insurance coverage.

If some people want and can afford a higher tech, or concierge type of service, they can go to a private insurer.

[ElNono]

According to grandparents far and away the best hospital/care they have ever received. Were stunned at the politeness, efficiency, speed and thoroughness of the experience.

I wouldn't doubt it. Did she had to pay out of pocket though? Or was this covered by traveler's insurance?

[coyotes_geek]

Uh? What I proposed would get rid of insurance for basic care. It would be taxpayer funded, much like medicare. As 101A pointed out, we already cover half of the population (with a bias towards the ones that need more care, the elderly). So we're already shouldering the bulk of the burden. Pick up the other, less risky half, and simply apply price/profits caps on providers, like most any other nation with a similar system already does. You might need to raise taxes a bit to compensate, but then again it would be offset by what insured people already get off their checks for insurance coverage.

If some people want and can afford a higher tech, or concierge type of service, they can go to a private insurer.

Apparantely I'm missing something. If the goal is to lower costs, what have we accomplished if we've lowered someone's premiums but their taxes went up?

[ElNono]

Apparantely I'm missing something. If the goal is to lower costs, what have we accomplished if we've lowered someone's premiums but their taxes went up?

You're missing the price control part. When the suppliers can only negotiate with one huge care provider they can 1) sell in bulk and reduce prices and 2) have to find a way to accommodate their prices to what the care provider is willing to pay or work with a small and niche private system (or get out of business).
The VA already has a somewhat similar system in place with mandatory % rebates.

[coyotes_geek]

You're missing the price control part. When the suppliers can only negotiate with one huge care provider they can 1) sell in bulk and reduce prices and 2) have to find a way to accommodate their prices to what the care provider is willing to pay or work with a small and niche private system (or get out of business).
The VA already has a somewhat similar system in place with mandatory % rebates.

And the only way to accomplish that is to force everybody into a government controlled monopoly over an industry that's soon to be 1/5 of our economy?

Not liking the sound of that.

[SnakeBoy]

German doctors went on strike when they were asked to work a 42 hour week instead of a 38 hour week. Good luck getting an doctors appointment here if they reduce their work week to 38 hours.

[boutons_deux]

"to force everybody into a government controlled monopoly over an industry that's soon to be 1/5 of our economy"

not everybody, just, as a start, all patients under Medicare/Medicaid/VA, for which the govt would be single-buyer and force volume discounts on BigPharma, just like single-buyers in socialist countries with national health systems for onto BigPharma, making BigPharma drugs much cheaper in socialist countries.

Just another case where Human-Americans are "free" to be ed by unregulated, avaricious capitalism, while the socialist countries BigPharma.

[ChumpDumper]

German doctors went on strike when they were asked to work a 42 hour week instead of a 38 hour week. Good luck getting an doctors appointment here if they reduce their work week to 38 hours.

How many hours do they work taking appointments now?

[ElNono]

And the only way to accomplish that is to force everybody into a government controlled monopoly over an industry that's soon to be 1/5 of our economy?

Not liking the sound of that.

We're shouldering half of that 1/5 of the economy with taxpayers money already. And it's the reason cost is astronomical compared to other countries.
If you have any better idea for lowering prices that doesn't include price control, let me know.

[boutons_deux]

what's wrong with "price control"?

You people seem to have no problem with rip-off sick-care prices killing 1000s of Human-Americans every year because the poor can't afford to get health care soon enough, aka, free-market death panels.

Note that life expectancy of Human-Americans after age 65 compares very well with social democracies, but below 65, including infant mortalities, Human-Americans mortality is way down the international league tables.

WTH magic occurs at age 65?

[SnakeBoy]

How many hours do they work taking appointments now?

It varies. I think around 30 hours for scheduled office appointments would be around average for primary car physicians. Much less for a surgeon.

Do you think scheduled appointments are all that comprises a physicians work week?

[ChumpDumper]

It varies. I think around 30 hours for scheduled office appointments would be around average for primary car physicians. Much less for a surgeon.

Do you think scheduled appointments are all that comprises a physicians work week?

Did I say that?

[SnakeBoy]

no, they didn't go nearly far enough to fix everything.

A good start, but too many half-assed solutions, like always, because of GOP foot stomping.

Well you should learn to be happy with it because it's all your going to get. No democrat president will take on the issue again after the ass kicking both Clinton and Obama have recieved for trying to take on the issue.