I found this about that Pew research doc, that it says was from 2006.
I'll take back the 'most' and just say 40% of them do come in legally.
There's no way to know. That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that it's pointless to give numbers to things that are happening in an uncontrolled, undo ented fashion.
Anyhow, the numbers are unimportant. Expired visas are the same as expired drivers licenses. We get caught with expired permits, we are charged with a crime.
Driving with expired permits is a crime. Having expired permits is not a crime.
And I disagree that numbers are not important.
And that's how we're going to catch them.
To expand on why I think numbers matter, in order to tackle the problem you need to know what you're dealing with. A lot of people talk about electric fences, army in the border, etc. But if you have half of the people coming in legally then that's just not going to be as effective as it needs to be.
tbh, except for one or two states, you can't get a driver license without papers.
Other than a counterfeit license obviously. China has actually been producing high-quality counterfeit licenses lately (more here)
i'm glad illegal meant illegal back then
Overstaying a visa will get you civil penalties and possibly deported. Entering illegally is a crime. The penalty difference doesn't negate the similarity of the infractions. A person's license could expire while they are driving, if they are driving past midnight (although there's normally a 5 day grace period). Both are permits, both have expired while the person is still engaged in what the permit allows.
They aren't important for our discussion.And I disagree that numbers are not important.
I thought we're talking about illegal immigration. As I stated previously, I do think it matters.
You need to divide your argument into subcategories to avoid moving the goalposts.
On one hand you have the illegal, undo ented immigrants from Mexico. I believe a good deal of the hub bub has been about them. Certainly the OP was talking about an undo ented immigrant.
On the other you have expired visas from all different parts of the world. I haven't heard much from that side of the room since they are do ented and known to be in the country and should be rather easily rounded up.
Being an undo ented immigrant is a crime. Having an expired visa is not.
Let's address one at a time.
Last edited by DMC; 08-20-2011 at 10:33 PM.
(double post)
What was the system of becoming a U.S. citizen back in the day? Getting off the boat?
At Ellis Island and going through the process of registering.
So marking an X on a book. Before Ellis Island?
Well, that was my argument. You summed it up pretty well.
Now both cases are illegal. No doubt about it.
As far as what can be done about it, I think we've discussed that a few times. We can rehash some of that if that's what you're looking for.
During the wars was an exception, since most of them were refugees. The US actually closed the port entry in NY back in WWII at some point once they received enough and re-routed the ships to other ports in Latin America.
Nice strawman.
You'll have to ask Culbert. I wasn't around then.
Who was referring to expired visas before you brought it up?
When the OP says "they are not all criminals", unless he's talking about every immigrant who doesn't have current legal status, I took it to mean, tongue in cheek, that not all undo ented immigrants are criminals when, by the nature of being what they are, they are criminals. Are they bad people? Most I've met aren't, but that's neither here nor there.
Sorry, I didn't even read the OP. Your comment about 'criminals' just stood out, and I wanted to point out that technicality. That's all.
entry is the criminal/civil infraction; being here isn't.
Who the is going to build your deck or fence for $100 and a case of beer?
I don't know, but when you find him, send him my way.
The sudden stops is what kills you, not the fall.
lmao at the thought of undo ented aliens not paying taxes..
Take one hero in, kick one useless moocher out. Do it.
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