Karl Malone shot .463 in the playoffs over his career.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan shot .464% FG in the 2005 Playoffs
lol

[midnightpulp]

yes they do if you know jack about basketball. You need to dominate the ball and over dribble when you are an assist . Jesus Christ why are they're so many stupid people who think tons of assists don't require dominating the ball? Why is it the assist leaders in the NBA every year are players who have the ball in their hands all the time? Is it just a coincidence?

Brasky's my , but DoK is correct here. Larry Bird was ten times the playmaker Stockton was, but averaged considerably less assists. We also saw this ball dominating, assist mentality when Wilt Chamberlain decided one season, as retaliation against the claims he was a ball hog, to lead the league in assists, which often had him passing up open in' shots to dish out an assist. Just because he filled up the assist column, doesn't mean he wasn't a selfish player.

That said, I do think DoK is underrating Stockton. He ran Sloan's offense the way it was intended and really never got out of line with too many stupid or selfish plays. He was also a heck of a defender for his position. Most of today's PGs take that side of the ball off.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And anyone who has ever played basketball knows that when you use the term "ball hog", you are referring to someone who shoots way too much instead of passing the ball.

That's your counter argument? A semantics complaint over use of the term "ball hog"? The literal definition of a "ball hog" is someone who hogs the ball, which Stockton did plenty of.

[Bill_Brasky]

That's your counter argument? A semantics complaint over use of the term "ball hog"? The literal definition of a "ball hog" is someone who hogs the ball, which Stockton did plenty of.

You mean a starting PG had the ball in his hands more than any other player on the team? Wow, what a revelation.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Brasky's my , but DoK is correct here. Larry Bird was ten times the playmaker Stockton was, but averaged considerably less assists. We also saw this ball dominating, assist mentality when Wilt Chamberlain decided one season, as retaliation against the claims he was a ball hog, to lead the league in assists, which often had him passing up open in' shots to dish out an assist. Just because he filled up the assist column, doesn't mean he wasn't a selfish player.

That said, I do think DoK is underrating Stockton. He ran Sloan's offense the way it was intended and really never got out of line with too many stupid or selfish plays. He was also a heck of a defender for his position. Most of today's PGs take that side of the ball off.

I've seen clips of Stockton where he would in pass up open layups to rifle it back out to Hornacek to take a 20 footer hoping it would get him an assist. Bull he never got out of line with selfish plays.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You mean a starting PG had the ball in his hands more than any other player on the team? Wow, what a revelation.

Stockton would over dribble and run the shot clock out looking for an assist. It's no less selfish than iverson dribbling the shot clock out looking for a shot. Pretty simple concept for most people.

[ElNono]

Can we all agree Stockton was class

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Btw Malone is just as overrated as Stockton if not more IMO. The 1997 and 1998 Jazz should thank Michael Jordan since being known as the great ing runner ups to Michael Jordan make people think of the Jazz as a team way better than they actually were.

[z0sa]

People call legendary pass first point guards ball hogs now? ROFL. Dominating the ball because everyone wants the ball to be in your hands will NEVER be ball hogging.

Stockton would over dribble and run the shot clock out looking for an assist.

cool anecdote, bro.

[midnightpulp]

I've seen clips of Stockton where he would in pass up open layups to rifle it back out to Hornacek to take a 20 footer hoping it would get him an assist. Bull he never got out of line with selfish plays.

Never said he was above being selfish, just said that there aren't too many instances where you'll see Stockton being a dumb .

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Never said he was above being selfish, just said that there aren't too many instances where you'll see Stockton being a dumb .

He wasn't being dumb. He knew how dumb white would view him if he got the assist record. Just like Steve Nash does.

Undersized white guy with the most assists of all time = great ing unselfish class act

[midnightpulp]

Btw Malone is just as overrated as Stockton if not more IMO. The 1997 and 1998 Jazz should thank Michael Jordan since being known as the great ing runner ups to Michael Jordan make people think of the Jazz as a team way better than they actually were.

Agreed. The 98 Utah team should've won that series. No doubt.

And in addition to people believing the '98 Jazz were better than actually were because they lost to Jordan, you have morons like BR and lakaluva thinking Karl Malone was better than he actually was.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Agreed. The 98 Utah team should've won that series. No doubt.

And in addition to people believing the '98 Jazz were better than actually were because they lost to Jordan, you have morons like BR and lakaluva thinking Karl Malone was better than he actually was.

Malone gets overrated moreso than anybody else on that team but they all have become overrated for losing the Michael Jordan.

Jerry Sloan is a glorified Mike D'antoni and he's considered a HOF coach by some for losing to Jordan

[Bill_Brasky]

Stockton would over dribble and run the shot clock out looking for an assist. It's no less selfish than iverson dribbling the shot clock out looking for a shot. Pretty simple concept for most people.

Even if that's true, I doubt youre old enough to remember seeing them play, and they don't keep stats on "times he dribbled the clock out and did something dumb", so it's kind of pointless to argue.


He was overrated, and he did choke, but he was a quality player, and not a ty fasha like that dumb Malone.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Even if that's true, I doubt youre old enough to remember seeing them play

When you can't dispute the information, dispute the source

[midnightpulp]

Anyhow, lol at Karl Malone again:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...806050UTA.html

At home, with a chance to go up 2-0 on the Bulls. What does BR's lover do?

Scores 16 points on a pathetic 5-16 shooting in a game that was decided by 5 points.

Oh, but they lost because the Bulls had Michael Jordan .

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

John Stockton with a whopping 9 points and 7 assists

[Bill_Brasky]

When you can't dispute the information, dispute the source

When the source is hearsay on a sports forum, its not hard.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When the source is hearsay on a sports forum, its not hard.

Doesn't matter who the source is, you'd dispute the information itself if you could.

[midnightpulp]

John Stockton with a whopping 9 points and 7 assists

Lol.

Hornacek was the man that game.

[jacobdrj]

He shot .435 over the playoffs in his first ever run to the NBA Finals.

He shot 8-22, missed 6 freethrows (in a game decided by 4 points), and grabbed 5 rebounds in Game 7 of the 1996 Western Conference Finals.

After Shawn Kemp destroyed Malone in the aforementioned game, Jordan crowned Kemp as the league's best power forward. Also worth noting is that John Stockton out rebounded Malone in that game.

Jeff Hornacek's career playoff FG% is higher than Karl Malone's.

As they say, discuss.

I love Malone's game, in general. But I don't disagree with any of those points: Malone was a choker (Jerry Slone didn't help much in this regard, he wasn't much of a game manager, nor did he recognize when Malone was choking and try to tell him to play smarter, closer to the basket). Shawn Kemp WAS the best PF in the NBA in 1996. Bar none. He made that Seattle team, in SPITE of George Karl. Kemp is the guy that made Gary Payton look good. John Stockton held those Jazz teams together by the skin of his teeth... If only he had some more help, and not been so reliant on Karl Malone for points in the paint, they may have won a le or 2...

[midnightpulp]

Doesn't matter who the source is, you'd dispute the information itself if you could.

To substantiate both claims on either side would require us to go back and revisit every one of Stockton's games, or at the very least, the important playoff ones.

Maybe my memory fails me, but Stockton played the point guard in the context of Sloan's system in nearly ideal fashion. I'm no great fan of Stockton, nor do I think Malone denied him a ring, nor do I think his assist record is something to be amazed at, since I do believe the assist is the most overrated stat in basketball, but I don't think he was a selfish stat padder (maybe he was, I just don't remember him being one). Any decent point guard would've piled up the assists in Sloan's system playing alongside Karl Malone, since Sloan seemed to forget every other play in his book besides the pick 'n roll.

[Bill_Brasky]

Doesn't matter who the source is, you'd dispute the information itself if you could.

Factual information must exist in order to be disputed. In this case, there is none.

[Koolaid_Man]

Agreed. The 98 Utah team should've won that series. No doubt.

And in addition to people believing the '98 Jazz were better than actually were because they lost to Jordan, you have morons like BR and lakaluva thinking Karl Malone was better than he actually was.

BR has reduced you to the chicken cherry picker that you are....deal with it..

[DMC]

We all know Malone was a choker


Stockton was their clutch guy

So when he was in LA, there was a chucker and a choker on the same team?