Backup Point Guard: TJ Ford or Gary Neal?

[Bruno]

the intensity goes up a notch in the playoffs, and we know weaknesses tend to be magnified. This is why Neal's relatively poor ball handling skills are a concern, because we know teams are going to focus on that and make us pay. I'm not really a follower of Pop's approach that a vet, no matter how dead, is always better than a rookie, but in the case of Ford the experience might be very welcome at that point: taking care of the ball and not doing stupid mistakes.

To me that's the key point why TJ should be the backup PG. With Neal as PG, there are risks of having what happened with Beno against Detroit in '05.

Now, If TJ sucks or if he get injured, Pop has always in his back pocket the option of a Neal/Ginobili backcourt.

[Seventyniner]

I think Ford was brought in to get them through the regular season, without having to run Parker and Ginobili into the ground. Ford's strengths -- ball handling and play making -- are not really necessary in the playoffs, because Parker and Ginobili, will play more and one will probably always be in the game. Unless, of course, it turns into a blowout.

Those of you advocating Ford in the playoffs, but not at the expense of Neal, are advocating one of two things. 1) Having a 10 or 11 man rotation or 2) Having a 9 man rotation, with no wing defender.

I don't see how either makes sense. It sounds great in theory to play 10, but then that cuts into the minutes of one, two or all three of, Parker, Ginobili and Neal. They need to increase Parker's and Ginobili's minutes in the playoffs, not keep them at the same level or decrease them.

Nailed it.

[HarlemHeat37]

In all likelihood, Ford won't be a 100% for the playoffs..even if he is, he'll probably get hurt again, tbh, it has been the story of his career..

Danny Green should be the odd man out, on the perimeter, in the playoffs IMO..

It would be foolish for Pop to drop Leonard out of the rotation..his style of play should translate well to the playoff style of the NBA, and he has shown that he can make the outside shot, once he's in a rhythm..

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I would much rather have Ford run the point. He is just a much better facilitator and ball handler. They are both very streaky scorers. Neal is a deep guy, Ford more mid range and inside. Keep Neal shooting deep. Let Ford make everyone's life easier with the ball.

[The Truth #6]

I think it's interesting that Pop hasn't made up his mind yet. And no matter what Pop decides in a few weeks as his plan, it could easily get scrapped in the playoffs when things get hectic. So, I think Ford should still be given minutes. I think he deserves a chance. And if it's just to give more rest to Parker and let Neal play more at his natural position for a while then that's fine as well for the regular season.

I agree that Neal as backup PG can be exposed in the playoffs under pressure. Hopefully it won't happen but that's a concern for Neal, and if it happens it could throw off the rest of his game.

As for the extended rotation, I'm fine with Pop severely reducing RJ's minutes if he's horrible. It happened last year.

[TD 21]

It wouldn't really be Neal running the point. Technically he'd be the PG and he'd definitely defend the position, but really he'd be playing it in tandem with Ginobili. And let's face it, more often than not, Ginobili would be the primary ball handler/play maker with the second unit, just like he's always been.

He'll probably be playing that role anyway during the playoffs (so as to have at least one of him or Parker in at all times, blowouts withstanding), so it comes down to what you'd rather have next to him: a quality ball handler/play maker, who's a limited shooter, or a middling ball handler/play maker, who's a knockdown shooter. Neal is clearly the better fit. You don't need a true PG next to a play making SG. Play making SG's thrive with spot up shooting PG's next to them. There's numerous examples: Bryant with Fisher, Wade with Chalmers, Johnson with Bibby, Roy with Blake, Jordan with Kerr, etc.

[MaNu4Tres]

It wouldn't really be Neal running the point. Technically he'd be the PG and he'd definitely defend the position, but really he'd be playing it in tandem with Ginobili. And let's face it, more often than not, Ginobili would be the primary ball handler/play maker with the second unit, just like he's always been.

He'll probably be playing that role anyway during the playoffs (so as to have at least one of him or Parker in at all times, blowouts withstanding), so it comes down to what you'd rather have next to him: a quality ball handler/play maker, who's a limited shooter, or a middling ball handler/play maker, who's a knockdown shooter. Neal is clearly the better fit. You don't need a true PG next to a play making SG. Play making SG's thrive with spot up shooting PG's next to them. There's numerous examples: Bryant with Fisher, Wade with Chalmers, Johnson with Bibby, Roy with Blake, Jordan with Kerr, etc.

I don't understand how people don't understand this.

[TJastal]

I'd much rather see Neal starting. I think he's a much more valuable there as the team's starting SG than a watered down role he's not ideally suited for. Also, Danny Green is much better suited coming off the bench, so those two should be swapped. Danny Green has some point guard skills and could easily play this watered down role that you all are clamoring for Neal to play.

Just my 2 coppers.

[HarlemHeat37]

In all likelihood, Ford won't be a 100% for the playoffs..even if he is, he'll probably get hurt again, tbh, it has been the story of his career..

Danny Green should be the odd man out, on the perimeter, in the playoffs IMO..

It would be foolish for Pop to drop Leonard out of the rotation..his style of play should translate well to the playoff style of the NBA, and he has shown that he can make the outside shot, once he's in a rhythm..

Like I said, Ford is fragile, he's completely unreliable, as unfortunate as it is..

[pgardn]

I am still not sold that Neal and Ginobili are easy to pressure.

Manu is not back yet. His quickness has not returned yet. The Knicks made him look fairly quick tonight, but I still see his legs sorta buckle when he tries to explode. If his quickness is now at max., he has lost a whole bunch of it. And this means we dont go far in the playoffs.

Neal will not work at PG in the playoffs. Tony, TJ, and a leg-strong Manu, will.

[DAF86]

Danny Green should be the odd man out, on the perimeter, in the playoffs IMO..

It would be foolish for Pop to drop Leonard out of the rotation..his style of play should translate well to the playoff style of the NBA, and he has shown that he can make the outside shot, once he's in a rhythm..

I think Green's style of play would also translate well to the playoffs.

[TJastal]

I see Pop has a staff member reading spurstalk for my advice on lineup changes.

[timvp]

The numbers are pretty equal between Neal at point guard and Ford at point guard so far this season.

Gary Neal at PG
101.59 points scored per 48 minutes
93.48 points allowed per 48 minutes
Sample Size: 159.7 minutes

TJ Ford at PG
96.00 points scored per 48 minutes
90.06 points allowed per 48 minutes
Sample Size: 145.5 minutes

So Neal allows 3.42 more points but the Spurs score 5.59 more points. And if any of those numbers look like a fluke, it's Ford's points allowed number -- he's not THAT good of a defender.

It isn't pretty when Neal runs backup point but it's productive and the Spurs won quite a few games with that alignment. Plus, with Ginobili back, it would make Neal's job a lot easier.

Add in Ford's injury status and I think the right choice is becoming clear . . .

[timvp]

Oh, and here's the clincher for me:

Tiago Splitter's stats with Neal
19.6 points per 40 minutes
.634 FG%
2.7 assists per 40 minutes

Tiago Splitter's stats with Ford
16.5 points per 40 minutes
.475 FG%
1.9 assists per 40 minutes

When Neal is the point guard, the offense runs through Splitter and Splitter takes full advantage. When Ford is the point guard, the offense runs through Ford. And while it's fun basketball to watch, it's just not conducive to the inside-out type of play that is needed to win in the postseason.

Ford's value is in playmaking but with Splitter spreading his wings and the return of Ginobili, the Spurs don't really need a playmaker in their second unit.

Now if Ginobili gets hurt again, begins to play exclusively with the starters or Splitter doesn't regain his pre-injury level of play, then the equation might change. But for now, I'm in the Neal camp.

[therealtruth]

I think the real advantage of having Neal and Ford is the flexibility. Being able to have different ways of running the offense can keep the defense on it toes. This also highlights what the team was missing with G. Hill at the backup pg. Neal's a better shooter and playmaker and Ford provides more playmaking than the team has had in years.

[SpurNation]

Oh, and here's the clincher for me:

Tiago Splitter's stats with Neal
19.6 points per 40 minutes
.634 FG%
2.7 assists per 40 minutes

Tiago Splitter's stats with Ford
16.5 points per 40 minutes
.475 FG%
1.9 assists per 40 minutes

When Neal is the point guard, the offense runs through Splitter and Splitter takes full advantage. When Ford is the point guard, the offense runs through Ford. And while it's fun basketball to watch, it's just not conducive to the inside-out type of play that is needed to win in the postseason.

Ford's value is in playmaking but with Splitter spreading his wings and the return of Ginobili, the Spurs don't really need a playmaker in their second unit.

Now if Ginobili gets hurt again, begins to play exclusively with the starters or Splitter doesn't regain his pre-injury level of play, then the equation might change. But for now, I'm in the Neal camp.

This is difficult for me to except. Even with the numbers. What I have to ask myself is....what are the numbers when Neal is playing the 2 compared to playing point? Didn't previous unit stats show that the team produced more efficiently with Neal in the 2G role than in the PG role?

I guess if the differences are in just splitting hairs...and if Ford will not be dependably healthy to play...and Ginobili remains coming off the bench...I wouldn't have an issue with Neal being the primary b/u at the point. But then Green becomes your starting 2G and that hasn't proven to be very effective in the starting line up.

Lots of avenues that can be traveled...which vehicle and road are the best to take?...being versatile may be the best way to prepare the rest of the season instead of planning too much on any single rotational pattern.

[Darkwaters]

Oh, and here's the clincher for me:

Tiago Splitter's stats with Neal
19.6 points per 40 minutes
.634 FG%
2.7 assists per 40 minutes

Tiago Splitter's stats with Ford
16.5 points per 40 minutes
.475 FG%
1.9 assists per 40 minutes

When Neal is the point guard, the offense runs through Splitter and Splitter takes full advantage. When Ford is the point guard, the offense runs through Ford. And while it's fun basketball to watch, it's just not conducive to the inside-out type of play that is needed to win in the postseason.

Ford's value is in playmaking but with Splitter spreading his wings and the return of Ginobili, the Spurs don't really need a playmaker in their second unit.

Now if Ginobili gets hurt again, begins to play exclusively with the starters or Splitter doesn't regain his pre-injury level of play, then the equation might change. But for now, I'm in the Neal camp.

Simply for the sake of argument, we have to understand the context in which your stats and figures are taken.

Ford's minutes are mostly taken from the very beginning of the season. At this time the team was more healthy (ie, Ginobili) but also was before some of the bench stand-outs of today had really begun their increased production. Namely: Splitter. It may be that Ford was actually holding Splitter back, but it also it equally likely that Splitter had not acclimated yet to an increased and consistent role on the team.

Additonally, Neal's minutes and figures are largely taken without Ginobili in the mix at all.

Make your own conclusions based on those points, but I think they warrant some consideration.

I personally think I prefer the idea of Neal running the point now, if only to keep the rotation reasonable. Of course, I'd also like to see Jefferson, Bonner and Blair all completely out of the playoff rotation....think that'll actually happen?