Pop and TD on the evolution of Spurs Basketball

[HarlemHeat37]

Not even close. Blair is statistically an above average defender.

according to what?..

Synergy has had him ranked as one of the worst DPPP players in the NBA, the past few seasons..IIRC, he was actually ranked dead last, last year..

Using basic stats, the Spurs defense has always been a few points worse, defensively, when Blair is in the game..

He's easily one of the worst defensive bigs in NBA history..

[Spursfanfromafar]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

With the current set up, "elite defensive team" is out of the question. But they are good enough to be "above average" and better than where they are now - which is exactly league average.

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

Any good coach's "good" should come from his ability to maximise his team's strengths and minimise his team's weaknesses. The team's strength include unselfishness, very high basketball IQ, experience and bonhomie. This should aid its offense and therefore focusing more on it is a good way forward.

The team's weakness is the lack of a shot blocking big and an "experienced" perimeter defender. They have a decentish replacement in Tiago Splitter for the former and the up and coming Leonard/Jackson/Green combine to nearly make up for the latter. Pop can minimise on the losses here without offsetting the focus on offense, by playing these teammates more and getting them in a groove.

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

No. A team that is great offensively will only win if its defense is capable of holding its own during the crunch and on offsetting if not shutting down the primary weapon of the opposition. As currently constructed, the Spurs are capable of doing both - it remains to be seen if they will be able to actually do it. I will say they are in the process of doing so and not yet confirmed as a championship contender.

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?


Not really. Spurs can win a championship only by privileging the need to augment their naturally gifted and honed skills on offense with effort and savvy on the defensive end.

[angelbelow]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

I want to say yes but a few issues..
-Tiago and Kawhi have both proven to be above average defenders in all aspects. Man to man, team defense, being disruptive, reading plays, etc etc. But they need some time, especially Kawhi. It won't happen this season but they have potential to be top tier.
-With the addition of Jackson and Diaw, we have the tools to be above average. I'm optimistic that our team will come together despite so few games left this season.
-Probably won't see elite, but above average isn't out of reach.

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

-From a business perspective, I do agree. The Spurs have gone from one of the "boring-est" teams to a very enjoyable run and gun team. Its a funner, more exciting brand of basketball.
-For 2011/2012 I disagree. Especially with our new editions, I don't think there is an excuse to not focus on defense. With that said, our additions are very new and it remains to be seen what Pop is going to choose to focus on.

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

-In general, my instincts say emphatic no. I wonder if its ever been done and if so, how rare of a feat it is.
-I would imagine that its really rare but not impossible.. so in rare situations where the stars align, it could happen.
-I think planning for a team to be great on offense and average on defense is suicide if you want to win. But could be a home run recipe for gaining fans.

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?

-Each day that goes by, my confidence in this team grows. I believe we can win this year but we're definitely underdogs. But not if we remain offense-first.. we need to tweak our line up:
-Duncan, Splitter and Diaw should see the bulk of the minutes up front.
-Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Leonard should round out the rest.
-Bonner, Neal, Green, Blair should fill out depending on match ups but shouldn't see more than 10-17 minutes a game.
-With those changes, I believe that we can remain offense first while being above average defensively.

[HarlemHeat37]

For comparison sakes, here are a few comparable teams to the Spurs, in the Duncan era..

2007 Suns: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..the Suns lost to a defensively elite Spurs team..however, the Suns were the 2nd best team in the NBA, that season, and they could have potentially won, if the suspensions played out differently..

2006 Mavs: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..beat a Spurs team that was arguably the best team in the NBA that year, and a defensive-oriented team..lost in the Finals, controversially, to a Heat team led by a historic superstar performance..

2003 Mavs: 1st offensively, 9th defensively..lost to a defensive juggernaut in the Spurs, although Dirk missed most of the series, giving them virtually no chance..the league was weak, that year, worse than this current season..

[TDMVPDPOY]

defense wins championships, if u dont play d, u dont get minutes

now it seems like doesnt matter how many shots you brick, as long u nail a few you get minutes even though ur still a player on the floor just trading baskets...

live by the 3 die by the 3....

[Sense]

I think we are good enough defensively to do it when it counts, we are not going to be as good as we were in other years because we don't have shot-blockers and in order to have that kind of defense you need to have half-court offense, which I really don't think we have. We are no longer that team offensively, therefore the pace of the game is faster, and we just can't do that AND play great defense.

[Danny.Zhu]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

No. Duncan is too old.

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

No. Although the defense will not become as nearly as what it used to be, we still need to focus more on that than the offense.

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

I don't see why not.

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?

No, they can't.

[DAF86]

I think we are good enough defensively to do it when it counts, we are not going to be as good as we were in other years because we don't have shot-blockers and in order to have that kind of defense you need to have half-court offense, which I really don't think we have. We are no longer that team offensively, therefore the pace of the game is faster, and we just can't do that AND play great defense.

The Spurs are arguably the best team at running half-court offense. -_-

[mathbzh]

1) The tools to become solid but probably not elite

2) Yes if the idea is to have elite offense & solid defense. Recent moves are a step in the good direction.

3) Yes:
No team in the West has an elite defense.
OKC, Spurs, Clippers... are average at best.
So I guess one team with elite offense will make it to the finals. Then anything can happen.

4) Yes (see 3)

[TDMVPDPOY]

we dont have elite defense like the previous championship teams, but we have the talent there on t he roster that should be playing at that high of a level in defense, we shown glimpses of it when we are able to have 2-3 wing players on the court who can play above avg defense, and have 2 more wing players on the bench that can come in and carry the defensive load.....

last night against the kings with the remaining 5mins with their strongest defensive lineup to date, they could turn it on if they wanted to...now all they need is to turn that for certain parts of each quarter whether to hold onto leads or stop the other team from making any sort or runs.....

[GSH]

last night against the kings with the remaining 5mins with their strongest defensive lineup to date, they could turn it on if they wanted to...now all they need is to turn that for certain parts of each quarter whether to hold onto leads or stop the other team from making any sort or runs.....

There's a reason I said that I don't think you can be an elite defensive team without the patience of older players. It's got a lot to do with keeping that focus for a whole game. This team doesn't have it.

Young players like, say, Danny Green. They know Pop wants defense, and they just have to try and make something happen. They want steals, they want blocks, they want a perfectly-timed leap into a passing lanes. Older players like, say, Bowen. They know that what they want is to make nothing happen. It's not sexy, and it takes patience and unwavering focus. It's just my opinion, but I don't think you can get that from the younger guys.

That reminds me of an old joke. I shouldn't, but I will. Then lights out.

An old bull and a young bull are standing on a hill, looking down at a field of cows. The young bull turns to the old one and says, "Hey... let's run down this hill and catch one of those cows and **** her. The old bull turns to him and says, "No... let's walk down the hill and **** ALL of them."

We've got too many young bulls to be an elite defensive team.

[Yorae]

The spurs one solid big who can block shot and defend the post well from being an elite defensive team again.

[HazeGray]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

Yes. Obviously there is a needed focus and effort commitment from the players. However as mentioned, Pop no longer has the same commitment towards defense. At this point, we all know Bonner and Blair are defensive liabilities yet they still get significant minutes.

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

No. Although I believe (hope) that more attention will be placed on defense as the playoffs near.

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

No. We need to get above average muy pronto.

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?

Yes. But we have to be able to win UGLY at least twice in the playoffs in order to seriously contend.

[therealtruth]

1. Parker-Manu-KL-TD-TS

Not quite the same as our championship lineups but as close as it gets with KL taking the Bowen role and TS taking the Oberto/Mohammed role.

2. I think Pop needs to be more balanced.

3. No. Unless they can guarantee they'll shoot lights out every game. Your defense has to be good enough to make up for the nights you don't shoot that well.

4. No. They've got to show some defensive improvement and get more easy baskets and low post scoring. The Phoenix Suns were better offensively and never did it.

[therealtruth]

The spurs one solid big who can block shot and defend the post well from being an elite defensive team again.

Splitter and Duncan both do that.

[therealtruth]

For comparison sakes, here are a few comparable teams to the Spurs, in the Duncan era..

2007 Suns: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..the Suns lost to a defensively elite Spurs team..however, the Suns were the 2nd best team in the NBA, that season, and they could have potentially won, if the suspensions played out differently..

2006 Mavs: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..beat a Spurs team that was arguably the best team in the NBA that year, and a defensive-oriented team..lost in the Finals, controversially, to a Heat team led by a historic superstar performance..

2003 Mavs: 1st offensively, 9th defensively..lost to a defensive juggernaut in the Spurs, although Dirk missed most of the series, giving them virtually no chance..the league was weak, that year, worse than this current season..

From what I see offense will give you a chance. But all those teams lost to teams that were better than them defensively. To be an NBA champion you probably need to be at least top 8 defensively.

Also in 2006 I don't think Pop played the same lineups that were responsible for the top defensive rating against the Mavs.

[mingus]

Great offensive teams can win championships. The Suns in 07 would have done it if not for stupidity. Kings beat Lakers in 04 without Horry's buzzer beater and dubious officiating. Both teams had homecourt. I think homecourt plays a huge role for offensive teams. Without it, the Spurs have no more than a slight shot. With it, they have as good a shot as anyone. I think we'll need homecourt against any top team in the NBA except Thunder to win a 7 game series. We're not beating Lakers, Heat, Bulls w/o homecourt.

[ace3g]

Spurs lead league with few fouls

The Spurs are on the verge of some unique NBA history, if they can maintain their current pace in avoiding a disqualification by their players.

Coach Gregg Popovich’s team commits fewer fouls than any other team and hasn’t had a player foul out of a game all season long.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...ith-few-fouls/

[SA210]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

I believe it starts at the top. Obviously we don't have Drob and Bruce, but wtf is wrong with Pop that he can't still have a defensive mentality? If he still coached defense first we would improve a good amount. To the Bruce days, no, but way better than we are now. It's starts with the coach.

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?
NO!

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

Yes, but it would take a bunch of luck, taking the chance and hoping that we'd face a team where defense doesn't matter. I don't like playing those odds. Why not just play frickin D and hold that edge?

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?

Same as 4. Basically hoping for luck that we'd not face certain teams. That's not a winning strategy with great odds. Possible, but stupid.

[roycrikside]

Pop and Tim Duncan have had some interesting quotes lately that allow us to hear their updated view of Spurs Basketball. As we all know, the Spurs of yesteryear relied on an elite defense and a precision offense to win ballgames and championships. These days, San Antonio mostly wins with its offense, while their defense is average at best.

Although it's become obvious that Pop no longer stresses defense nearly as much anymore, we hadn't really ever heard it out of the horses' mouths.

First, here's a paraphrase of what Duncan said after the Suns game: "In today's NBA, you can't just count on holding the other team to under 80 points -- you have to be able to score. And we think we can do that."

Here's the actual quote from Pop after tonight's game against the Kings: "We spend more time on offense these days because our defense won't be as good as it used to be in the past -- it just won't. So we gotta pick it up somewhere."

This shouldn't come as a shocking revelation to any Spurs fans but it is notable that the Spurs have officially changed their focus as a team. I have some questions that I'm still debating in my own head and I'm interested in the opinions of the citizens of SpursTalk.

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?



Thank you in advance for your time.

1. No. They don't have anyone on their roster as good as Bowen was on the perimeter, Manu and Tony aren't as good defensively as they were in their primes, and Tim has slipped considerably from his prime, even though he's still well above average. Even a Tim-Tiago-Leonard-Ginobili-Parker lineup wouldn't be as consistently good defensively as some of the lineups the Bulls and 76ers put on the floor on a regular basis.

2. I don't think he's really focusing on anything, tbh. In this post-lockout season there's hardly any practices at all. He's just trying to keep guys fresh and healthy and pretty much throwing on a wall and seeing what sticks. But yeah, almost everyone on the roster is better offensively than defensively.

3. No. I don't think you need to be elite defensively to win, but at least above average, with flashes of elite in stretches, and that's assuming you're elite offensively.

4. I think it's unrealistic to expect the big three to all play well simultaneously for four straight playoff series, so no it's not realistic. At some point they'll need to get stops.

However, I do think we have to accept the new paradigm in Spurs basketball. Bowen isn't walking through that door, and neither is Horry or Robinson or 2003 Timmy. No, we don't have to hold teams to 85 to win anymore, but at the same time, it's unrealistic to expect us to score 115 in the playoffs every night. I think the magic number is 95. If we hold the other team to 95 or less and lose, it's the offense's fault. If we give up over 96 and lose, it's the defense's fault.

[Spursfanfromafar]

For comparison sakes, here are a few comparable teams to the Spurs, in the Duncan era..

2007 Suns: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..the Suns lost to a defensively elite Spurs team..however, the Suns were the 2nd best team in the NBA, that season, and they could have potentially won, if the suspensions played out differently..

2006 Mavs: 1st offensively, 13th defensively..beat a Spurs team that was arguably the best team in the NBA that year, and a defensive-oriented team..lost in the Finals, controversially, to a Heat team led by a historic superstar performance..

2003 Mavs: 1st offensively, 9th defensively..lost to a defensive juggernaut in the Spurs, although Dirk missed most of the series, giving them virtually no chance..the league was weak, that year, worse than this current season..

Just to expand upon this -

The closest (and somewhat close) teams that had such positions on offense and defense in the regular season (Spurs are ranked 3 and 12 respectively this season so far) and won a championship are -

Lakers (2000-01) - Offensive Ranking 2, Defensive Ranking 21
Lakers (1979-80) - Offensive Ranking 1, Defensive Ranking 9
Lakers (1987-88) - Offensive Ranking 2, Defensive Ranking 9
Lakers (1981-82) - Offensive Ranking 2, Defensive Ranking 10
Bulls (1990-91) - Offensive Ranking 1, Defensive Ranking 7
Lakers (1984-85) - Offensive Ranking 1, Defensive Ranking 7
Lakers (1986-87) - Offensive Ranking 1, Defensive Ranking 7
Lakers (2001-02) - Offensive Ranking 2, Defensive Ranking 7
Bulls (1992-93) - Offensive Ranking 2, Defensive Ranking 7
Rockets (1994-95) - Offensive Ranking 7, Defensive Ranking 12
Heat (2005-06) - Offensive Ranking 7, Defensive Ranking 10
Mavs (2010-11) - Offensive Ranking 8, Defensive Ranking 8
Bullets (1977-78) - Offensive Ranking 10, Defensive Ranking 9

I did this exercise only till 1978 (retrospectively).

In a nuts , the Showtime Lakers and the Kobe-Shaq era was the only teams that managed to win despite a just above average (or below average in the case of 00-01 team) defense (atleast in the regular season).

[HarlemHeat37]

To be fair, that 2001 Lakers team was by far the best defensive team in the playoffs, that year..

They coasted during the regular season, particularly Shaq..

[therealtruth]

The Spurs must have some sort of record. It seems like every other game someone on the other team is getting a career or season high.

[TheSkeptic]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

2. Do you agree with Pop's decision to focus more on offense?

3. Hypothetically, can a team that is great offensively but average defensively win an NBA championship?

4. Can today's Spurs team win a championship with an offense-first mentality?



Thank you in advance for your time.

1. Not defense-first old style Spurs basketball, but at the very least I think the tools are there to be in the top 10. Top 8 would be ideal because I think that combined with the offense would be enough to go far in the playoffs.

The offense would be able to carry them more often than not but if shots don't fall and/or they need stops the defense would be able to keep them in games and occasionally win a few.

2. Yes and no. It makes sense to go for offense in order to make up for the fact that they're not elite defensively anymore. Pop has gone overboard. However, if that's the stance he's taking, then his decisions make sense even if that means the team probably isn't going to win it all this year as a result.

3. Sure with the help of some convenient injuries, a bit of officiating, lucky breaks, and a hot streak.

4. Can they? Sure if they face someone like New York or Orlando in the NBA finals.

Since I fully expect one of Chicago or Miami to come out of the East, however, if the Spurs made it that far I'd expect them to lose in about 6 if this is the stance they're taking.

Hoping for a long-shot upset and for favourable match-ups is just setting the team up to fail imo.

[pookenstein]

1. Do you believe that the Spurs still have the tools to become an elite defensive team? For example, are their lineups and a rotation that could be used to enable the team to play the previous style of defense-first Spurs Basketball?

I doubt that we can become as good defensively as we have been in the Robinson/Duncan days, but I think with the current roster we can put some pretty good defensive lineups together:

1. Small-Ball: TP--MG--KL--SJ--TD
2. Tall-Ball: TP--MG--KL--TD--TS

In both lineups you can replace Manu with Green if you want, also Kawhi and Jax can change positions and either one could be replaced with Diaw on PF.
Kawhi can be replaced with Jax in the Tall-Ball lineup.


Maybe still not the best defensive Squad in the leageu, but an elite one if you ask me.