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  1. #26
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I am disappointed. I hoped at least to get a cite. Apparently, you're content to crib from the back of the book, like a lazy undergrad.
    lol, yah.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=lVJ...opower&f=false

    starts at the bottom of 253 with "we are then ..."

  2. #27
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'm more than slightly alive to "critiques" of progress and the theraputic/managerial state, which Foucault does have some insight into, but he rubbishes it with jargon and bad style. You probably love him for that, though . . .

  3. #28
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    To me, he's the least worst of the post-structuralists. I think he's writing/style is ok, actually. But to each his own I suppose.

  4. #29
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    lol, yah.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=lVJ...opower&f=false

    starts at the bottom of 253 with "we are then ..."
    hardly elucidating, but thanks for the cite.

    is there particular language you'd draw my attention to?

  5. #30
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    To me, he's the least worst of the post-structuralists.
    king of the anthill!

  6. #31
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    hardly elucidating, but thanks for the cite.

    is there particular language you'd draw my attention to?
    In terms of a snippet, no sorry.

    What I had in mind was his discussion of biopower, racism, and the modern state from 253-56.

    Also, the bit on how the modern state functions under a paradigm similar to Nazism on 263.

  7. #32
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    any thoughts of your own on that passage, or are you more or less content to parrot?

  8. #33
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Also, the bit on how the modern state functions under a paradigm similar to Nazism on 263.
    reductio ad Hitlerum. how original.

  9. #34
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    any thoughts of your own on that passage, or are you more or less a parrot?
    No not really. If I did, I'd probably have gone to grad school.

    squak squak

  10. #35
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    lame. you don't need a sheepskin to think for yourself, but then again, maybe diplomas are generally taken as protection against thinking: ceiling, not floor.

  11. #36
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    reductio ad Hitlerum. how original.
    I find the bit about how Nazism shows racism is necessary to the function of the modern state original. Are there thinkers who came up with this notion before Foucault? I always thought he was the first to lay it out in these terms.

  12. #37
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I don't think he's saying neo-liberal governance is fascism. I think he's saying the processes at play under a neo-liberal paradigm find their most absolute expression in Nazism.

    but that might be the same thing, I dunno.

  13. #38
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    universalizing from the particular to construct an overarching theory? that's hardly original. for all I know the theory itself might be, but I tend to doubt it.

    at any rate, it hardly hurts that Foucault's post-structuralist (i.e, post-Marxist) theory dovetails with the iden y politics so much in vogue these days.

    squawk! squawk!

  14. #39
    Not Koolaid_Man Homeland Security's Avatar
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    I find the bit about how Nazism shows racism is necessary to the function of the modern state original. Are there thinkers who came up with this notion before Foucault? I always thought he was the first to lay it out in these terms.
    Racism is necessary to the function of the modern nation-state. Are all modern states nation-states? Are there other organizing principles available? Are there other means of oppression and exclusion available besides racism? Isn't any country with a dominant culture and subcultures falling outside that dominant subculture racist at least to some degree?

  15. #40
    Not Koolaid_Man Homeland Security's Avatar
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    If a country is organized based upon principle x, can those who disavow principle xx be included? Or else can a country be organized without asserting any principles?

  16. #41
    Not Koolaid_Man Homeland Security's Avatar
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    Think of a Texan accent. Is it just one accent you think of? Are any of the accents you just thought of Hispanic-sounding? If not, aren't you a racist?

  17. #42
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Racism is necessary to the function of the modern nation-state. Are all modern states nation-states? Are there other organizing principles available? Are there other means of oppression and exclusion available besides racism? Isn't any country with a dominant culture and subcultures falling outside that dominant subculture racist at least to some degree?
    Racism as understood as a cut or division of the body politic into separate groups is not unique to the nation-state. While all modern states aren't nation states (if one wants to believe diasporic communities are states, or trans-national organizations like Al-Qaeda are states), racism, as a founding disavowal of everything other, is not unique to the nation-state.

    I don't think that racism is the only form of oppression/exclusion and you're right that non-conforming sub-cultures are subject to a form of racism.

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