Manning the greatest?

[DD]

They won 11 or 12 games IIRC and cassell put up some nice numbers I think. I'll have to check later

Yeah that's nice and all, but he had an undefeated team to play with and lost the division to Chad Pennigton and the Dolphins. To put that in perspective, it's the only time in the last decade (2012 included) that the Patriots didn't win the division. That was also the only Dolphins playoff berth since 2001.

[HI-FI]

Yeah that's nice and all, but he had an undefeated team to play with and lost the division to Chad Pennigton and the Dolphins. To put that in perspective, it's the only time in the last decade (2012 included) that the Patriots didn't win the division. That was also the only Dolphins playoff berth since 2001.

ah DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt ing Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are ing geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

[LnGrrrR]

ah DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt ing Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are ing geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

A system QB that has won at least 10 games in a row for pretty much a decade. Too bad the rest of the NFL hasn't caught on to this "system".

[HI-FI]

A system QB that has won at least 10 games in a row for pretty much a decade. Too bad the rest of the NFL hasn't caught on to this "system".

Matt ing Cassell steps into said system and goes 11-5. Teams have tried to duplicate the Patriot Way and all these Patriot coaches end up blowing. The constants are Belichick, Adams and Brady. So Brady deserves his share of props, no doubt, but even when he plays like garbage, Patriots still end up winning some big games. I was confident before that Manning could produce anywhere, I'm not so sure with Brady. He's smart though, he'll hang with Belichick as long as possible. The fact they could have success with a 6th rounder, then a 7th rounder, shows the system was bigger than a single player (Belichick's own words btw).

[LnGrrrR]

Matt ing Cassell steps into said system and goes 11-5. Teams have tried to duplicate the Patriot Way and all these Patriot coaches end up blowing. The constants are Belichick, Adams and Brady. So Brady deserves his share of props, no doubt, but even when he plays like garbage, Patriots still end up winning some big games. I was confident before that Manning could produce anywhere, I'm not so sure with Brady. He's smart though, he'll hang with Belichick as long as possible. The fact they could have success with a 6th rounder, then a 7th rounder, shows the system was bigger than a single player (Belichick's own words btw).

Yes, which was a 5 game dropoff. That's pretty large actually. Especially when the 16-0 team set all kinds of offensive records.

And if you look at Manning's record, he's had a lot of garbage games too. Heck, the only reason he has a ring is because the Indy defense stepped it up in the playoffs. And exactly what offensive system do they have in place? The one in 2002-2006, which was mostly dink and dunk, play action and screens? Or the one from 2007-2010 or so, which focused on protection and long bombs? Or the one now, that focuses on the 2 TE set? Which offensive system has been in place for a decade plus in New England?

[HI-FI]

Yes, which was a 5 game dropoff. That's pretty large actually. Especially when the 16-0 team set all kinds of offensive records.

And if you look at Manning's record, he's had a lot of garbage games too. Heck, the only reason he has a ring is because the Indy defense stepped it up in the playoffs. And exactly what offensive system do they have in place? The one in 2002-2006, which was mostly dink and dunk, play action and screens? Or the one from 2007-2010 or so, which focused on protection and long bombs? Or the one now, that focuses on the 2 TE set? Which offensive system has been in place for a decade plus in New England?

their offense has evolved, which is a credit to Belichick once again. He saw the rule changes and has changed the team based on the lineups, the matchups etc...That team can do so much. Credit to Brady for evolving with it, especially since he started out as a simple game manager, but had he gone to another team, I doubt he would've had the support system to evolve into an elite QB. as for the system, that was Belichick, he said last year in that game against the Colts, how their team wasn't dependent on one guy being hurt, that their system was bigger than one player. System could mean a lot of things, I'm just using it in the same context as Belichick.

they might have lost 5 games since their 18-1 season, but going 11-5 in the NFL with a QB who hasn't started since high school and history has proven to ing suck, is pretty incredible. Especially since they were 10-6 the year after with Brady coming back. (yes I know he was coming back from an injury, so has Manning with a worse situation) It's a credit once again to that coaching staff for gameplanning the best they could with the talent available.

[LnGrrrR]

So Brady has been a successful QB in various systems, while putting up outstanding, record setting numbers the past few years. Yeah, I could see how you could plug in any above-average QB to get the same results.

[J.T.]

1. Andrew Luck
2-Inf. WGAF?

/thread

Manning is the king of one and done in the playoffs. If Indy clinches, I want Baltimore first (Flacco sucks, totally rode stout D and Ray Rice to relevancy) then Denver.

[HI-FI]

So Brady has been a successful QB in various systems, while putting up outstanding, record setting numbers the past few years. Yeah, I could see how you could plug in any above-average QB to get the same results.

True. or you could put in a player as bad as Matt Cassell and get decent to average results. Belichick is a of a coach.

[gaKNOW!blee]

1. Andrew Luck
2-Inf. WGAF?

/thread

Manning is the king of one and done in the playoffs. If Indy clinches, I want Baltimore first (Flacco sucks, totally rode stout D and Ray Rice to relevancy) then Denver.

You mean like his last one and done...where he got his team the late lead and his defense choked it away by getting on by mark Sanchez and Braylon edwards?

[Lincoln]

You mean like his last one and done...where he got his team the late lead and his defense choked it away by getting on by mark Sanchez and Braylon edwards?

What are the chances bills beat seahawks sunday

[Pelicans78]

I would take Montana and Brady over Manning simply because of their poise. Both Brady and Manning are awesome and Manning has all the physical gifts, but Brady just has that poise that reminds me of Montana.

[DD]

ah DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt ing Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are ing geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

No, as a Bills fan I hate him and think his wife has turned him into a euro . That being said, it's disingenuous to call him a system QB with the #'s he's put up. 5000-yd passers aren't system QBs, nor are QBs who throw for 36/4. Last year was especially impressive, given how truly awful that team was around him...one of the most underappreciated SB appearances I can remember.

[DD]

What are the chances bills beat seahawks sunday

It's a road game, so I'd say 40/60 they lose.

[Lincoln]

It's a road game, so I'd say 40/60 they lose.

I hope so, it'd be great if your boys in blue could give us some help

I can't trust this falcons team

[dirk4mvp]

5000-yd passers aren't system QBs

Matt Glassford says what's up.

[HI-FI]

No, as a Bills fan I hate him and think his wife has turned him into a euro . That being said, it's disingenuous to call him a system QB with the #'s he's put up. 5000-yd passers aren't system QBs, nor are QBs who throw for 36/4. Last year was especially impressive, given how truly awful that team was around him...one of the most underappreciated SB appearances I can remember.

tbh, Brady was a euro long before Gizelle. He was rocking a manpurse early on. He's always been a hardcore metrosexual.

people always on the Patriot teams but in terms of points allowed, I don't think they've had a defense worse than 17th under Belichick. That's pretty incredible, considering how the focus has been more on the offensive side of things.

I never said he was some scrub, I've said he is elite and a HOFer, I don't know what more praise I can give. I just think that he landed in the perfect environment. Brady deserves all the credit for his work ethic, his passion for the game, his great arm etc...but he started out as a game manager and fortunately had a coach who is imo the best at gameplanning. I just don't think Brady would've ever grown to be this good had he gone somewhere else, whereas I think Manning would've been great anywhere.

IMO, Manning and Belichick represent this era like Johnny U and Lombardi represented their time. I put Brady in the role of Bart Starr, very good and a HOFer, but I think he'll always be overshadowed by his coach, whereas Manning's best coach he's had is probably John Fox, tbh.

[DD]

If "just throw it to Megatron" is considered a system, then yeah. He's terribly erratic and inconsistent, but not a system qb

[DD]

tbh, Brady was a euro long before Gizelle. He was rocking a manpurse early on. He's always been a hardcore metrosexual.

people always on the Patriot teams but in terms of points allowed, I don't think they've had a defense worse than 17th under Belichick. That's pretty incredible, considering how the focus has been more on the offensive side of things.

I never said he was some scrub, I've said he is elite and a HOFer, I don't know what more praise I can give. I just think that he landed in the perfect environment. Brady deserves all the credit for his work ethic, his passion for the game, his great arm etc...but he started out as a game manager and fortunately had a coach who is imo the best at gameplanning. I just don't think Brady would've ever grown to be this good had he gone somewhere else, whereas I think Manning would've been great anywhere.

IMO, Manning and Belichick represent this era like Johnny U and Lombardi represented their time. I put Brady in the role of Bart Starr, very good and a HOFer, but I think he'll always be overshadowed by his coach, whereas Manning's best coach he's had is probably John Fox, tbh.

If Mo Lewis hadn't ruined the AFC East then yeah, Brady may never have gotten a chance. Btw, I never hinted or said that I would take him over Manning. I think the Sheriff is #2 all-time behind Montana.

[HI-FI]

If Mo Lewis hadn't ruined the AFC East then yeah, Brady may never have gotten a chance. Btw, I never hinted or said that I would take him over Manning. I think the Sheriff is #2 all-time behind Montana.

I've come to respect Brady over the years, but I've always feared Belichick. nefarious mofo tbh, but brilliant. I've always wanted to see what Belichick could do without Brady, I guess the Matt Cassell year was proof of it. Supposedly he wants to coach a few years after Brady, probably to show how he can adapt with a new QB, but I wonder how much he'll have left in the tank at that point. I think your AFC East will be safer once him and his boy Ernie Adams ride off into sunset. on your QB list, pretty much what mine is.

[FkLA]

I dont think anyone can deny Brady was in a more favorable environment in NE than the GOAT was in Indy tbh. Matt ing Cassell was able to keep the ship steady while Brady was out. Meanwhile Kerry Collins and whoever the other POS QB was last season completely ed everything up. It took another once in a generation QB in Luck to get the Colts up and running again.

[LnGrrrR]

I think that Brady and Manning are 2a/2b in that order (Brady getting the nod for 3 rings and 5 total appearances).

[Pelicans78]

Cassell took over a team that went 18-1 the previous season and Cassell led the Chiefs to the playoffs two years ago as well.

The Colts team would have been 9-7 at best with Peyton last year. That was a bad team anyway.

Peyton lost a lot of home playoff games especially when the team was favored in most of them. His ego was a big reason why.

[dirk4mvp]

His ego was a big reason why.

Can you explain without using some lame reason you usually use like "I don't like the way Peyton chops his feet in the pocket!"

[FkLA]

Ive always laughed when people call Peyton egotistical because he wanted too much control of the offense in Indy. Hes the ing GOAT, and great at reading defenses...so of course he should have and want full control of the offense.