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What an odd thread..
The turnover talk doesn't make a lot of sense.
Manu is averaging 2.1 turnovers per game this year. He averaged 1.9 last year. He is averaging less turnovers per game this year than in 2005, 2008, and 2011 and the same as in 2004, 2007, and 2010. Granted, he is also playing slightly less minutes, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. He's always been a bit of a high turnover player. That's just the nature of the beast.
What an odd thread..
9 out of 10 plays are usually turnovers, but everytime manu pulls a connected play the other 9 plays are forgotten...lmao CoM
Manu will be fine, he just needs to get his rhythm back, he looked amazing in the Olympics, people don't get that old in 3 months
Last edited by Brunodf; 12-14-2012 at 02:29 AM.
Right, his 2.2/1 assist/turnover ratio sure makes this case.
LOL, I had ot laugh at this one here, truth.
Turnovers was the reason for the loss not to mention the lack o ball movement. I saw quite a few open looks for some of our shooters notably green getting passed up for a good shot and not great. I see a loss of trust. It was a sad game to watch. Like a loss of iden y. We really are starting to miss Jack and lawgiver.
Because of the decline in his athleticism, Manu IS now a role player. As much as he can still conjure up some thrilling moments, his poor decision-making and costly turnovers drive me crazy - especially when he's tired.
Been saying it since 2010...
Repeated it in 2011...
Not sure why people are surprised now, or saying "I'm jumping off the bandwagon"
Manu is still a useful player for this team or any team. But he's been on the decline for a while now... hopefully he's just banged up a bit and this is not the wheels falling off completely.
Ginobili is 35
not every player in a spur uniform will play like it was 05 again
ginobili is losing his passion for the game and hes broken literally every part of his body in his relatively short career
he cant get to the rim anymore and his shot is inconsistent
hes not an all-star caliber player now and theres no shame in not being a roleplayer at 35 years old
I would disagree that "he's losing his passion for the game"... he looks pretty pissed everytime he s up, which happen to be more often during some of these stretches...
this is the part that concerns me the most. When he said he isn't sure if he'll resign, or how he doesn't want his kids becoming professional basketball players, I start to think it's coming to an end.
Obviously he's been in decline. Any player who is 35 has been in a decline for a couple years. That's simple math, tbh.Been saying it since 2010...
Repeated it in 2011...
Not sure why people are surprised now, or saying "I'm jumping off the bandwagon"
Manu is still a useful player for this team or any team. But he's been on the decline for a while now... hopefully he's just banged up a bit and this is not the wheels falling off completely.
But I wouldn't expect ElNono to have such a defeatist tone when speaking of Ginobili. He's not going to turn into 2005 Ginobili obviously but I see no reason why he can't reach a very good middle ground of something like 16, 6 and 4 with a PER north of 20.
I have pretty much seen zero evidence that Manu is losing his passion for the game.
Maybe my post came across the wrong way. I still think Manu can play great here and there, but All Star level? He's been a role player for a while. Last playoffs was a great example in every aspect.
He didn't have great games in the first two series, and he really didn't need to, but he showed up against OKC with a couple of great games. He's going to have great games here and there, but it's going to be difficult to find night in, night out supermanu games. He's still a guy that will make key plays, and that has such basketball IQ that I would never want him to play for another team, no matter how old.
Well, yeah, he's definitely not an NBA All-Star anymore, but I don't know if I'd say he's a role player, either. I think he's somewhere in between. Lumping him in with the Danny Greens and the Gary Neals of the world is not too accurate, IMO, though he isn't (and never has been) quite in Tim Duncan's company, either.
The Spurs will be over paying Manu from here on out for what he will bring to the team.
He's getting old and right now he's definitely not doing what were used to but he'll be there when THOSE MOMENTS come. He still gots that IT factor that sparks us when we need it. He's sloppy right now tho, no doubt about it.
I don't know the answer to the fact. But I wish he thinks he is, thus it can actually add his value to the team with him playing more within the system and his capability.
@JRHernandez88 Thats it exactly. He does things that don't show up in the box score. And he has THOSE MOMENTS. He can go 1/8 and knock down a 3 to win.
Edit: A few caveats:
Thinking oneself as a role player does not mean less responsibility at all. It's just that he cannot be the focal point in offense whenever he is on the court like before. It needs to be Tony and Tim.
Unlike RJ type of player, we never need to worry about Manu's compe ive will. Instead, the worry is that he still thinks he is his old-self and tries to do much and gets frustrated for not being able to do that. By tuning down the expectation a little bit, he can do more actually.
This only applies to Manu as we can always trust he will fight to the end no matter what. And this is the reason why he is my favorite player. But for players like Green/Leonard, you might want to encourage them to "think" more of themselves.
lol who gives a , why are people so caught up on meaningless classifications? He's clearly an inconsistent, way past prime player who some nights looks like a scrub and others looks like an all-star. Why are you asking this question, do you not watch the Spurs? The minutes are even really inconsistent, the goal is to be in decent shape come playoff time, that's it.
Is Diaw a role player?
Is Dejuan Blair a barely legitimate player, or an insignificant role player?
Is Tim Duncan in his mid 30s?
Is Danny Green a true starter, or is it because he's on the Spurs? Would he start on the Atlanta Hawks? What about the Celtics?
Will Nando be a starter in his 30s, a limited role player, or back in Europe?????????
Is Gary Neal having a worse year than 2 seasons ago?
Kawhi Leonard's : over/under 8.5 inches?
Please respond to the above everyone, I' respect your opinions on these important issues.
I don't know what others in ST are thinking, but my point is that Pop needs to see that Manu is not an all-star any more. Pardon me for using Kidd analogy again. Kidd is very important to what Knicks do, one of the biggest reasons they are the no.1 team in the East right now. But he and the Knicks coaches don't expect him to be in leading role in offense as in his old-days.
Honestly, I was just thinking this as well. Manu really hasn't been Manu for a while now. I don't bury him just yet, he missed virtually all of last year, and this season is still young. I want to believe he can start playing at a higher level than seen so far. He will never be the guy from 3 years ago or so. But I would still like to believe he has some magic left. Time will tell.
The later unfortunately. great post though. He is capable of scoring rebounding and making plays but he only seems to be able to do one well each game as of now.
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