Quick Grades: Spurs @ Hornets - Jan. 7

[Floyd Pacquiao]

It looked like Tim was walking a little gimpy going to the bench on one of the dead ball timeouts. I don't think he returned after that. I wonder if that had something to do with him sitting out the 4th.

yea I saw that too...probably had everything to do with tim not playing the 4th

[DatBoyGood]

Well if this makes it better the Thunder lost to the Wizards by 2

[RD2191]

no its not better because we lost to the hornets

[RodNIc91]

A 'Just burn the tape loss". Some iffy decisions by Pop, cold shooting, TO's...Im back to a Splitter Bonner for Smith-Lopez Trade.

[Sean Cagney]

Well if this makes it better the Thunder lost to the Wizards by 2

Nope, just some ground we could have gained on the got damn Thunder if we actually beat a bad team.

[chapnis]

no its not better because we lost to the hornets

It's better, still a net negative, but better. Would you rather OKC won?

[RD2191]

nope, but i just wish we would of won.

[RD2191]

are the chances high that splitter leaves via free agency? would it be crazy to trade splitter and whoever for varejao?

[chapnis]

are the chances high that splitter leaves via free agency? would it be crazy to trade splitter and whoever for varejao?

Not high chances. Cavs want too much for Varejao apparently.

[timvp]

So now we're qualifying rebounds?

Yeah, there are offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, tbh. Grabbing multiple rebounds at the rim because you can't make a layup isn't as valuable as grabbing a defensive board when the Hornets are crashing it repeatedly.

I'm aware of their league rank, but teams with multiple bigs who are strong offensive rebounders have repeatedly bludgeoned this team and barring a trade, you can bet on this being a major part of their undoing in the playoffs.

Recent examples?

1. He's no longer good enough for that to be a concern. Anything more than spot minutes is too much and if his name were Finley or Jefferson, you and the vast majority would be saying the same thing.

2. He acts like he's owed a certain amount of minutes though. Like he's above playing spot minutes.

3. Fair enough, but overall, he's a problem. 20+ mpg for a guy who looks perilously close to done is way too much.

4. He's had long enough (Nash and Gordon, were out significantly longer, yet are playing significantly more minutes far fewer games after their return). He's young, spry and not asked to do a whole lot offensively. I'm not suggesting he's as good as prime Marion or Wallace yet, but that type of player is typically capable of playing 40 mpg, yet he can't even play something like 32 mpg? Inexplicable.

1. Jack brings more to the table than HWSNBN and old Fin ever did. He's not especially good and needs to play better to keep a spot ... but to act like he's trash that Pop is wasting minutes on is going pretty damn far, IMO. Jack has the ability to be a capable backup SF. He's not there yet but I don't see a reason why you want to treat him like a sunk cost.

2. He's off to a slow start to the season so you want him Blair'ed. Okay.

3. Maybe he's done. I don't think he is but that's a possibility. I think the more logical explanation is that he tried to work himself into shape and then broke his finger ... and is now playing with a finger that is still technically broken for the next few weeks. Besides, playing him a good amount in January is a great way to figure out how much he has left in his tank. Assuming anything at this point would be foolish, IMO, especially when there are ways to figure it out.

4. @ comparing Pop's handling of players to D'Antoni's handling of players. And Gordon has barely played in like two years. Taking a cautious approach with Leonard and slowly building up his stamina is the way to go when dealing with a young player with knee/quad tendinitis. You push too hard and you risk what happened to Elliott -- it becomes chronic and he's forced to miss months at a time.

[therealtruth]

Nope, just some ground we could have gained on the got damn Thunder if we actually beat a bad team.

The Hornets are probably not a bad team when healthy.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.

[TD 21]

Yeah, there are offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, tbh. Grabbing multiple rebounds at the rim because you can't make a layup isn't as valuable as grabbing a defensive board when the Hornets are crashing it repeatedly.

So it's his job to singlehandedly keep opposing teams off the offensive glass? How about Splitter grows a pair and takes care of that more than a handful of times per season? Or how about they acquire a PF who actually rebounds like a PF?

Recent examples?

Hornets (twice), Thunder (twice), Clippers (twice), Lakers, Grizzlies and Nuggets, have all hurt them in this regard. I don't think I need to explain why it's alarming that those specific teams (minus the Hornets) have done so.

1. Jack brings more to the table than HWSNBN and old Fin ever did. He's not especially good and needs to play better to keep a spot ... but to act like he's trash that Pop is wasting minutes on is going pretty damn far, IMO. Jack has the ability to be a capable backup SF. He's not there yet but I don't see a reason why you want to treat him like a sunk cost.

He does and that's why he should still be getting spot minutes as opposed to no minutes. Having the ability to be something and actually being something are two entirely different things. I want to treat him like what he is and that is a player who has no business playing in excess of 20 mpg for a team with serious championship aspirations. Like most Spurs fans, your nostalgia and bias clouds your judgment on him.

2. He's off to a slow start to the season so you want him Blair'ed. Okay.

No, I want him playing spot minutes, which is why I've said that about 37 times. It's beyond a "slow start". He has played at this level for the better part of the past two seasons, people have just ignored it because they like him and because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.

3. Maybe he's done. I don't think he is but that's a possibility. I think the more logical explanation is that he tried to work himself into shape and then broke his finger ... and is now playing with a finger that is still technically broken for the next few weeks. Besides, playing him a good amount in January is a great way to figure out how much he has left in his tank. Assuming anything at this point would be foolish, IMO, especially when there are ways to figure it out.

He should have been working his tail off in the off season, not just picking up a ball for the first time not long before camp. He's getting what he deserved.

4. @ comparing Pop's handling of players to D'Antoni's handling of players. And Gordon has barely played in like two years. Taking a cautious approach with Leonard and slowly building up his stamina is the way to go when dealing with a young player with knee/quad tendinitis. You push too hard and you risk what happened to Elliott -- it becomes chronic and he's forced to miss months at a time.

It was just an example. Let's be honest, this has little to nothing to do with Leonard's injury. This is just how Pop has handled the wing rotation since Jackson was acquired. He needs to stop pretending as if there's little separation between the wings.

[Paranoid Pop]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.

I agree with that, he'd be perfect in that role too.

I didn't see the game but we won't win a lot when tp and Tim are playing like that.

I agree with TD 21 that they need a trade badly, front court is too soft, they should do whatever it takes to get Derrick Williams or Ilyasova.

That includes trading Green and Splitter the two best trading baits we have.

[Hoops Czar]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

[TD 21]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

He's not allowed an off shooting game or a bad stretch . . . you're only allowed those when you shoot 25% from 3 and when you're beloved for an overrated playoff performance from going on 10 years ago.

People need to realize that Green basically is the 7th man (and should be). He just starts for balance purposes.

[Paranoid Pop]

Green is not a good defender and a very one dimensional shooter on O... Start Manu for playmaking or Ky for defense at the 2.

[Brunodf]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

His job is to make wide open 3 pointers. If Green is making them that's just what he is supposed to do but if Green doesn't, he is useless.

[ElNono]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

It's like when Blair posted a double-double... once in a blue moon doesn't matter...

[timvp]

So it's his job to singlehandedly keep opposing teams off the offensive glass?

Where'd I say that?

How about Splitter grows a pair and takes care of that more than a handful of times per season?

I've repeatedly criticized Splitter for his defensive rebounding.

Hornets (twice), Thunder (twice), Clippers (twice), Lakers, Grizzlies and Nuggets, have all hurt them in this regard. I don't think I need to explain why it's alarming that those specific teams (minus the Hornets) have done so.

I guess you have a different interpretation for the word "recent", tbh.

The defensive rebounding wasn't too bad against the Clippers. Against the Thunder, it was adequate in the season opener (and it was very strong in the playoffs last year).

You were beating the "defensive rebounding is a problem" drum all of last season and it turned out to be a strength in the playoffs. Considering that a lot of the issues this year could be traced back to that period when the Spurs didn't have a small forward, I don't yet see a need for concern.

He does and that's why he should still be getting spot minutes as opposed to no minutes. Having the ability to be something and actually being something are two entirely different things. I want to treat him like what he is and that is a player who has no business playing in excess of 20 mpg for a team with serious championship aspirations. Like most Spurs fans, your nostalgia and bias clouds your judgment on him.

Nostalgia and bias claims work better against someone who hasn't admitted that Jack might be done and that he needs to improve in order to become a competent backup SF.

All I'm saying is I'm not in favor of banishing him to the depths of the bench (Bonner-esque spot minutes or however you want to frame it) because there are reasonable explanations for his slow start. I'm not sure why you are mystified that a guy with a broken finger can't consistently shoot it straight yet.

No, I want him playing spot minutes, which is why I've said that about 37 times. It's beyond a "slow start". He has played at this level for the better part of the past two seasons, people have just ignored it because they like him and because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.

Jack has yet to really get into a rhythm and find a niche yet with the Spurs. Patience is needed. Hastily banishing him at this juncture of the season doesn't make any sense.

And, it might just be me, but if a player stepped up when it was absolutely needed the most last season, I'm going to give him a few extra feet of rope before I close the book on him.

[timvp]

His job is to make wide open 3 pointers. If Green is making them that's just what he is supposed to do but if Green doesn't, he is useless.

If his job is to make open three-pointers, he's doing a uva job considering he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, he's streaky but if the end result is someone who can shoot >40% while getting up a lot of attempts due to his quick release, I'd take that every day of the week. That's a rare ability.

And TD 21 is right, Green in reality is more like this team's seventh man.

[pookenstein]

Green going to the basket is just painful to watch. If he doesn't pick up an offensive foul he can't finish at the rim.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Add me to those who think that Stephen Jackson has been more of a liability this season, heroics in history apart. For all the compe iveness and intangibles he brings, I think the greatest value he has provided is that he is not Jefferson and he has a $10m expiring contract thus far. I am leaning toward using his contract to get a decent backup PF and perhaps a more useful backup to Leonard.

[Spurs da champs]

Yes Jacks "intangibles" have become outweighed by his bad play & Leonard needs to ask himself & Pop if he's content with being a spot up shooter. Because honestly he's a mediocre shooter & is just way too talented to be just that.

[biskvito]

lol vazques 11 assists
lol spurs shooting 9 more 3pt and having worse % under .300
lol De Colo 1.4min and 1 assist, while bonner 8 min 0-0-0 and Splitter starving with 2/4
lol senile team that relies on 3pt to win