Lakers: Kobe's Defense...

[Ashy Larry]

Kobe hasn't played great defense in close to a decade. Been living off reputation for years. He's capable of pretty good defense for short stretches, maybe late in games when he's motivated against someone like LeBron or Melo. But he's not all that good anymore, definitely not consistently good. And it's been many years since he sniffed good defense.

hater.

sincerely,

LG

Dude has lived off his reputation for a while. He's been put on All-Defensive Teams without really doing anything to stand out especially in the last few years. His center field play may work in baseball but that really doesn't fly on the hardwood.

[JamStone]

Now I'm getting defensive

Why are you so obsessed with talking basketball on Spurstalk, homie? 20K posts and 90% percent of them 200 words or more, which are usually a long winded regurgitation of a point someone already made.

When I was making those long posts, I was really into talking about NBA basketball. You could say I was obsessed with the NBA and having discussions about the NBA.

See how easy it is to admit? Why so hard for you?

[midnightpulp]

When I was making those long posts, I was really into talking about NBA basketball. You could say I was obsessed with the NBA and having discussions about the NBA.

See how easy it is to admit? Why so hard for you?

I was being somewhat facetious when I brought up your posting history, which isn't an example of an obsession. Unless of course posting on Spurstalk affected your social and professional lives in some fashion, which I highly doubt.

You seem to only understand the term in its most generic, pop-psychology form.

Culburn posting 5>4 for 20 hours straight would come closer to the actual meaning of the term.

That said, nice passive-aggressive trolling. You got me to reply

[JamStone]

All I know is that the Lakers are 5 games below .500 35 games into the season. They are an irrelevant team in the NBA right now. At least they should be. Yet in the NBA section on these boards, they are the most talked about team, probably significantly so. The team about which the most threads have been created and most posts made. More than the Heat, OKC, the Clippers or the Knicks. And since the Lakers have been so poor this season, especially by the standards of expectations, it's likely many if not most of those threads and posts weren't made by Lakers fans, except in defensive response. Many of the Laker fanbois go into hiding when the Lakers suck.

So by my unscientific but fairly sound logic, I conclude much of the Laker threads and posts are created by insecure Laker haters, such as yourself. What would speak even more volumes as to the irrelevance of the Lakers would be no more threads and posts be created on their behalf and allow them to be the mediocre and irrelevant team that they have performed to be so far this season. But we know Laker haters such as yourself can't help yourselves. Quibble over definitions and semantics. To me, that's still an obsession, no matter how trivial and innocent and harmless the form it is.

[Bill_Brasky]

The Lakers really are that funny this year though. Seriously, this is a team with a 100 million dollar payroll that people had in the WCF and they aren't even over 500. That's not obsession, that's the biggest story in the league. And there's no Smush Parker to blame this time either.

[midnightpulp]

All I know is that the Lakers are 5 games below .500 35 games into the season. They are an irrelevant team in the NBA right now. At least they should be. Yet in the NBA section on these boards, they are the most talked about team, probably significantly so. The team about which the most threads have been created and most posts made. More than the Heat, OKC, the Clippers or the Knicks. And since the Lakers have been so poor this season, especially by the standards of expectations, it's likely many if not most of those threads and posts weren't made by Lakers fans, except in defensive response. Many of the Laker fanbois go into hiding when the Lakers suck.

So by my unscientific but fairly sound logic, I conclude much of the Laker threads and posts are created by insecure Laker haters, such as yourself. What would speak even more volumes as to the irrelevance of the Lakers would be no more threads and posts be created on their behalf and allow them to be the mediocre and irrelevant team that they have performed to be so far this season. But we know Laker haters such as yourself can't help yourselves. Quibble over definitions and semantics. To me, that's still an obsession, no matter how trivial and innocent and harmless the form it is.

Are you forgetting where you are? Regardless of this being labeled the "NBA Forum," the majority of posters are Spurs fans, and because the Lakers are the Spurs number 1 historical rival, who are having a disaster of a season that was preceded by an ungodly amount of hype, of course they're going to be talked about. Why would you think anyone on here would give a enough to post more threads about the Knicks or Heat or even the Thunder (who you could say is now on Spurfan radar from last season) than the Lakers? With that loaded roster of theirs, they're going to stay relevant throughout the entire season, regardless of record. This isn't the Randy Pfund Lakers. This is a team that was predicted to go to the Finals, so of course they'll persist as a hot topic.

And there's no "quibble" over semantics. You flat out don't understand what obsession means in the diagnostic sense of the term. But feel free to continue to misinterpret it. That's your right I guess.

Here's a question for you: Why so concerned with my posting activity about the Lakers? This is probably the 10th time you called me out on my "obsession."

[Cry Havoc]

All I know is that the Lakers are 5 games below .500 35 games into the season. They are an irrelevant team in the NBA right now. At least they should be. Yet in the NBA section on these boards, they are the most talked about team, probably significantly so. The team about which the most threads have been created and most posts made. More than the Heat, OKC, the Clippers or the Knicks. And since the Lakers have been so poor this season, especially by the standards of expectations, it's likely many if not most of those threads and posts weren't made by Lakers fans, except in defensive response. Many of the Laker fanbois go into hiding when the Lakers suck.

So by my unscientific but fairly sound logic, I conclude much of the Laker threads and posts are created by insecure Laker haters, such as yourself. What would speak even more volumes as to the irrelevance of the Lakers would be no more threads and posts be created on their behalf and allow them to be the mediocre and irrelevant team that they have performed to be so far this season. But we know Laker haters such as yourself can't help yourselves. Quibble over definitions and semantics. To me, that's still an obsession, no matter how trivial and innocent and harmless the form it is.

Jamstone, you're a good poster, which is why it kind of shocks me frankly for you to try to connect these dots. The Lakers aren't just being lambasted because they're the Lakers, it's because they have a $100 million dollar payroll, supposedly the 2nd greatest SG of all-time having his best statistical season, with THREE potential HOF teammates around him, and yet they're sitting 4 games out of the playoffs. All this from a pre-season that Laker fans were basically dismissing the entire conference and saying only the Heat had a chance to beat them with the caveat that they'd probably knock LeBron out in 5. The Spurs are obviously going to make the playoffs, that's settled, so in some manner they're less exciting to watch, with the fate already known, than this Lakers crew, which collapses every night for about 3 quarters. But their fate hasn't been decided, so there's a lot more drama there to watch than just figuring out if we're a 1, 2, or 3 seed by season's end.

This board has been full of nothing but Lakers fans and trolls for the past ~3-4 years, all of whom were FAR more obsessive about posting and braying the greatness of their team, yet you call this one person out? The entire NBA fanbase is celebrating right now outside of SoCal. The Lakers are a laughingstock, a trainwreck. The Lakers have always been entertaining, and now that they're losing it's, well, still entertaining. And they've been our rivals since Duncan came into the league. Are you really going to call out a poster for celebrating the apparent demise of an arch-rival in a historically hyped season? Go to any nba/sports board and you see the same thing. People laughing at the Lakers.

at hating a team = insecurity. Patently ridiculous. As if rivals are borne of nothing but insecurity.

[midnightpulp]

Jamstone, you're a good poster, which is why it kind of shocks me frankly for you to try to connect these dots. The Lakers aren't just being lambasted because they're the Lakers, it's because they have a $100 million dollar payroll, supposedly the 2nd greatest SG of all-time having his best statistical season, with THREE potential HOF teammates around him, and yet they're sitting 4 games out of the playoffs. All this from a pre-season that Laker fans were basically dismissing the entire conference and saying only the Heat had a chance to beat them with the caveat that they'd probably knock LeBron out in 5. The Spurs are obviously going to make the playoffs, that's settled, so in some manner they're less exciting to watch, with the fate already known, than this Lakers crew, which collapses every night for about 3 quarters. But their fate hasn't been decided, so there's a lot more drama there to watch than just figuring out if we're a 1, 2, or 3 seed by season's end.

This board has been full of nothing but Lakers fans and trolls for the past ~3-4 years, all of whom were FAR more obsessive about posting and braying the greatness of their team, yet you call this one person out? The entire NBA fanbase is celebrating right now outside of SoCal. The Lakers are a laughingstock, a trainwreck. The Lakers have always been entertaining, and now that they're losing it's, well, still entertaining. And they've been our rivals since Duncan came into the league. Are you really going to call out a poster for celebrating the apparent demise of an arch-rival in a HISTORICALLY hyped season? Go to any board and you see the same thing.

at hating a team = insecurity. Patently ridiculous. As if rivals are borne of nothing but insecurity.

What it really comes down to is Jamstone being asshurt that his second favorite team sucks almost as much as his first, and with me being the most prominent Laker hater, I'm an easy target he can vent his frustration at. Similar to how pained Spursfans used to call out Luva for his "obsession" with Tim Duncan. It's an easy "take the high ground" move for a poster to pull.

[JamStone]

Shrugs. Even if I hated the Lakers, by now, I'd just be at a point of disregarding them and ignoring them. They simply don't deserve much attention, probably don't deserve any.

To each his own.

[JamStone]

What it really comes down to is Jamstone being asshurt that his second favorite team sucks almost as much as his first, and with me being the most prominent Laker hater, I'm an easy target he can vent his frustration at. Similar to how pained Spursfans used to call out Luva for his "obsession" with Tim Duncan. It's an easy "take the high ground" move for a poster to pull.

You're en led to your opinion. I only see you post about the Lakers, whether it's directly or indirectly. And I just wonder why. Maybe you post more about the Spurs upstairs. You could have said that if you do. I don't really go upstairs ever. But anytime I see you post, especially if you start a thread, it's about the Lakers or taking a shot at the Lakers. So again, why do you expend so much energy with them? It's not like it's 50% of your posts. It's like ALL of your posts. Lol @ you bumping a thread from last June that wasn't about the Lakers. Is that the most recent one you could find?

[Cry Havoc]

Shrugs. Even if I hated the Lakers, by now, I'd just be at a point of disregarding them and ignoring them. They simply don't deserve much attention, probably don't deserve any.

To each his own.

It'll get old when it's clear that they aren't making the post-season. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, same I do anytime a team from Philly starts to flame out of the post-season. As it stands, the Lakers still have a decent probability of making the playoffs, so each loss is still statistically significant. That's the difference, because it means the meltdown is still progressing.

[JamStone]

It'll get old when it's clear that they aren't making the post-season. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, same I do anytime a team from Philly starts to flame out of the post-season. As it stands, the Lakers still have a decent probability of making the playoffs, so each loss is still statistically significant. That's the difference, because it means the meltdown is still progressing.

Fair enough. I don't think it's a decent probability of them making the playoffs still though.

[Cry Havoc]

Fair enough. I don't think it's a decent probability of them making the playoffs still though.

Hollinger has them at 28%. Given the fact that they still have 4 HOFers, that's probably pretty low, since those stats are not reflective of potential, merely what's happened so far.

[Bill_Brasky]

Fair enough. I don't think it's a decent probability of them making the playoffs still though.

That's the reason people keep watching. They gotta be thinking "these guys have to have at least a 10 game win streak in them". That would really help them in the standings. And it just never comes

Though ill give you they're a little more boring now that they don't have an active C.

[midnightpulp]

You're en led to your opinion. I only see you post about the Lakers, whether it's directly or indirectly. And I just wonder why. Maybe you post more about the Spurs upstairs. You could have said that if you do. I don't really go upstairs ever. But anytime I see you post, especially if you start a thread, it's about the Lakers or taking a shot at the Lakers. So again, why do you expend so much energy with them? It's not like it's 50% of your posts. It's like ALL of your posts. Lol @ you bumping a thread from last June that wasn't about the Lakers. Is that the most recent one you could find?

Because the Lakers are what interests me.

I like talking about basketball as much as the next guy, but all too often, threads about the Bucks or whatever don't get much play, so offering an opinion that probably won't be responded to is a waste of time. Also, the "trolling" element on ST intrigues me far more than the basketball discussion. Not that the basketball talk is bad, but in long threads with multiple responses, someone usually has already made the point I wanted to make, so rather than elaborate on someone else's take that won't add much to the discussion, I'll go with Kool or start a satire thread with my most notable troll.

And lol at posting about the Lakers = expending so much energy.

[Kidd K]

True. and what is comical he played some of his best defense all season (last one) in a meaningless ASG which pissed off Wade so much he hacked him which broke Kobe's nose ...

Look Im obviously a Laker fan, but dude can be frustrating. his shot selection, sometimesy defense and hot and cold clutch performances are ALL part of his legacy as are the game-winners, great scoring binges, exeptional foot-work and all around game he has. I just think the hate on him gets ridiculous ...but so does the idolatry. The Kobe close to or better than MJ ship... sailed years ago even winning a 6th wont change that. But MJ is overrated a bit too on defense and his fans get all butthurt when anyone is compared to him. at best Kobe can be considered in teh 2nd best to MJ convo but again Lebron may make that debate moot anyway ....

Like I have said on here for years Lebron has a slim chance at passing MJ and Kobe though not close to MJ isnt as far as many people think either ...but I would say TODAY that Magic and especiallly Kareem have much stronger GOAT arguments than Kobe ... and I doubt that is changing much.

Jordan's not that overrated on D'. The only time he's overrated on D' is whe people say he was the best defender in the league. That's obviously a joke, but to say he was the best defensive SG in the league I don't think is a big stretch for many of the seasons he played prior to the tail end of his run with the Bulls. And obviously, he wasn't a good defender on the Wizards since he was 40. But I don't think anyone claims he was.

Kobe's been mediocre on D' since 28 or 29 years old. What kills me about it is that it's a complete lack of effort. It's like he saves all his energy for offense. That's why I don't buy that junk about "oh he's capable of good D'". No he isn't, not for extended periods of time. He can't do both offense and defense at once. It's either one, the other, or medium on both. He usually just picks offense.

I'd have less of a problem with it if his D' wasn't still be heralded as great. All defensive 1st team awards still? . . .what a joke.

[Killakobe81]

The Lakers really are that funny this year though. Seriously, this is a team with a 100 million dollar payroll that people had in the WCF and they aren't even over 500. That's not obsession, that's the biggest story in the league. And there's no Smush Parker to blame this time either.

How about Darius Morris or the injuiries to our wonder bread PGs?
I kid, injury is no excuse ...

[FkLA]

Jamstone being a Kobe fan is disappointing tbh. Kobe stands against everything the Larry Brown Pistons stood for imo.

Do agree with his assessment of Kobes defense though. He used to get up defensively for guys like Tmac and now do it for guys like Bron, his goal has always been the same selfish one though...he doesnt do it to help out the team he does it to show the world that hes better than them. If hes guarding someone irrelevant like Danny Green he has no problem lollygagging around and giving him a wide open look for a game winning 3 pointer. Kobe has the ability to play defense and even the ability to be a playmaker for his teammates, but hes only worried about chucking and getting his tbh.

[Leetonidas]

Jam, the Lakers being under .500 makes them more relevant than ever and you know it. The entire seasons storyline has been watching the Lakers fail. Everyone is enjoying it, except for Lakerfans. Even Kobefan doesn't mind because Kobe is scoring 30ppg at decent efficiency so they can say at least it's not Kobe's fault. For a team with so much damn talent, them being 5 games below .500 is a big deal.

It's not just mid, who may have an obsession with the Lakers, but look at the general board on RealGM and half the topics are about Kobe or the Lakers. Fans of basketball are closely watching the Lakeshow drama, it's as good of a storyline as it gets

[timvp]

Tbh, Kobe never was a great defender ... or even a very good one. Back in his prime, he never defended Manu or TP (well, he tried to defend TP once and that ended comically bad for him). Kobe spent his time "guarding" Bruce Bowen. And despite having room to roam off of Bowen, he never really was much of a pest. Truly great defenders like Scottie Pippen (or, , even someone like Dirk) could "guard" Bowen and then wreak havoc elsewhere. Kobe, on the other hand, did little away from the ball even though he paid such little attention to Bowen that Bowen had some of his best offensive games of his career against him.

I'd classify Kobe as "good" defensively in his prime just because he was so athletic that he could impact the game via steals and blocks. But he was never a lockdown defender and probably doesn't deserve any of his All-Defense honors, tbh.

[Medvedenko]

Tbh, Kobe never was a great defender ... or even a very good one. Back in his prime, he never defended Manu or TP (well, he tried to defend TP once and that ended comically bad for him). Kobe spent his time "guarding" Bruce Bowen. And despite having room to roam off of Bowen, he never really was much of a pest. Truly great defenders like Scottie Pippen (or, , even someone like Dirk) could "guard" Bowen and then wreak havoc elsewhere. Kobe, on the other hand, did little away from the ball even though he paid such little attention to Bowen that Bowen had some of his best offensive games of his career against him.

I'd classify Kobe as "good" defensively in his prime just because he was so athletic that he could impact the game via steals and blocks. But he was never a lockdown defender and probably doesn't deserve any of his All-Defense honors, tbh.

So in your expert opinion why do you think he was voted to so many first team all defense noms? Also, the gameplan was to have Kobe guard Bowen back in the day to conserve energy and play off the ball D. It's called Strategy and it worked the majority of the time, if my history is correct.

[Leetonidas]

good point timvp, Kobe let Bruce Bowen outscore him in a playoff game in his prime. Not much more needs to be said. Jordan would never have allowed this to happen

[FkLA]

So in your expert opinion why do you think he was voted to so many first team all defense noms? Also, the gameplan was to have Kobe guard Bowen back in the day to conserve energy and play off the ball D. It's called Strategy and it worked the majority of the time, if my history is correct.

Same reason hes considered a Top 10 player tbh. All hype. It doesnt matter if he has the ability to defend when hes not showing it out on the court because 'hes conserving energy for chucking'. Rick Fox, Devean George, Trevor Ariza, and now Ron Artest have always guarded the opposing teams best wing player...wouldnt expect a kobe fanboy to know any better though tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

So in your expert opinion why do you think he was voted to so many first team all defense noms?

Because not all NBA coaches are geniuses, tbh...

[Killakobe81]

Kobe's probably still my favorite player in the NBA. But that doesn't mean I don't realize and admit his many flaws. I've always liked flawed players though. I was a huge KG fan even though he's an emo , fake tough guy (and it's waned since he's been in Boston). I loved Allen Iverson pretty much his whole career even though he was a selfish team cancer. I love Manu Ginobili even
though he's bald and Argentine. Love CP3 and his game. All flawed players. I think it's their approach to the game, even if that approach itself is flawed. They are all extremely tougcompe ors who will do close to anything to win. Win at all costs type of players. Leave it all on the court type players. I appreciate knowing the guys playing hate losing even more than they like winning. If they're selfishly chucking or fake barking or flopping or chest bumping because of it, so be it.

Not sure why but have similar sentiments towards Kg, Manu CP3 and even LeBron ... I even like some of the guys the forum hates on most for being chuckers, especially since they ignore the other aspects of their game. Obviously they have ways to go and things to prove but Melo, Rose and Westbrook are guys I enjoy and defend on here and at the rec center etc. I just dont see how hate blinds you to appreciating the talent of these guys ...