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Solid argument, thanks for the contribution.
Oh my god.
Solid argument, thanks for the contribution.
SJax and Bonner in the playoffs shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. One is the definition of clutch and the other the definition of choker.
I've mentioned Bonner's piss poor shot mechanics as one of the main reasons he can't excel in the playoffs numerous times before. What is your response to that Drz?
1. How much less effective could that possibly be? Even if the team loses 5 points per 100 possessions, a phenomenally high number, he's still 3rd on the team, and
2. if they play off him, great. The more 3s a team takes, the more often a team wins, IRRELEVANT OF 3P SHOOTING %. Seems counter-intuitive, but it's a true fact (per Hollinger).
someone should post bonners 3 point percertange by month
its hilarious how every year the exact same trend follows as april approaches
i take efkn bonner over gary
Just went through your old posts by searching for the word "mechanics." You're right, you have said he has poor mechanics quite a few times. Maybe someday you'll decide to say what it is about the mechanics that's bad.
Personally, I couldn't care less if he shot it by doing a backflip and bumping it off his ass, all I care about is that it goes in. You sound like the old school MLB scouts ... it's not about results to you, it's about if it looks good.
Stan Musial died today. He had an ugly, ugly swing. Must've been a bad playoff performer, by your twisted logic.
bonner has bad mechanics and bad playoff performances so your logic if flawed tbh
somebody ban this got
And to think that we had Steve Novak on this team, let him go and kept Bonner. It irks me every time I see Novak and his quick, picture perfect release on NYK and think of Bonner's slow, ed to the side release. And it INFURIATES me when I think of Pop's man-love for Bonner and how it's kept Splitter on the bench up until recently.
Gary is fkn pathetic.
only thing gary neal the hero has on bonner is a quick release, everything else his fakn
I'm going to give you a quick example to help illustrate my thinking. It's from Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman. Please read it.
Did you read that? I hope so. If you didn't, read it now. That small blurb could change your life by helping you understand how your mind works.
I don't hope, I know that reading that blurb has helped you understand why your thinking of Matt Bonner is flawed. Your mind is trying to develop causal relationships that aren't there. The playoff performance is a result of extremely limited minutes and shot attempts. Nothing more, nothing less. To say you don't believe in this is like saying you don't believe in math.
If you read that and truly, TRULY still believe in your old line of thinking, all I can say is you are stubborn and beyond hope. Kahneman is a Nobel Prize winner in economics. You are a poster on an internet board. Please, take some time to think about which person is probably right.
They play off him and Bonner still refuses to shoot because of his slow release. It kills the spacing and they don't get more attempts.
If this were true, I'd agree with you. But other than commonly repeated phrases around here, and people saying stuff like "watch the games fool!," there's no evidence that he requires himself to be more open to shoot in the playoffs.
Seriously though, kudos to you though for actually making an argument. I get frustrated seeing people post acious "duhhh, Bonner BAD!" comments with no evidence and, in most cases, quite obviously no clue what they're talking about. When someone comes along and actually makes a point, even if I don't agree, it's a breath of fresh air.
On Bonner's shot: his poor mechanics stem from his form of hoisting the ball from just below his shoulder rather than releasing the ball from above his head like players are taught. The problem with this is although he's 6'10" his shot has the release point of someone approximately 6'3" or so. This coupled with the extra time it takes him to get the shot up from. This low release point means he cannot get off a semi contested shot from 3, and this is the type of shot that you have to be able to hit in the playoffs.
This is exacerbated by the 4+ seasons of playoffs basketball that have shown Bonner to not only miss shots when the games get more important but also become hesitant to shoot when the moment is bigger. All together it means his effectiveness in the playoffs is greatly reduced and there is nothing but empirical evidence from 5 years of results to show this. You can keep trying to explain it away all you want but it doesn't change.
That said, props to Bonner and Blair for coming through when they were needed the most with Duncan sitting. Their efforts were part of the difference between a road win and loss.
if Bonner's mechanics are not good for playoffs, how come Chip hasn't fixed it? Bonner seems like the type to work hard and improve these things.
btw, I don't necessarily agree with Drz's crusade, but I respect it.
I disagree with two bolded parts:
1. He releases the ball well above his head (see pic below). He starts with the ball around his shoulder, but his release point is the same as nearly every other shooter.
2. Playoff basketball is the same game as regular season basketball, albeit with more talented teams and (slightly) more effort. The bigs that guard him, at best, are only going to close out on him barely faster than they do in the regular season. I don't see how this could cause much of a dropoff in shooting percentage. It seems vastly, VASTLY more likely that the existing difference is due to the very small number of shot attempts.
"5 years" of empirical evidence? You're trying to fluff it up to make it sound good, but you and I both know it's 85 3 point attempts.
If you can prove to me he becomes more hesitant to shoot when the moment is bigger, I will Paypal you $50. You have my word.
Per 82games.com, here are Bonner's "clutch" 3 pt stats the last two years. Clutch is defined as 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points
2012-2013: 0.419
2011-2012: 0.500
Not only is that not a choker, it's pretty damn excellent.
Maybe such little shot attempts is the sign that he becomes hesistant to shoot in the playoffs. You can point to all the regular season stats you want but it's a different type of pressure in the playoffs. So again:I disagree with two bolded parts:
1. He releases the ball well above his head (see pic below). He starts with the ball around his shoulder, but his release point is the same as nearly every other shooter.
2. Playoff basketball is the same game as regular season basketball, albeit with more talented teams and (slightly) more effort. The bigs that guard him, at best, are only going to close out on him barely faster than they do in the regular season. I don't see how this could cause much of a dropoff in shooting percentage. It seems vastly, VASTLY more likely that the existing difference is due to the very small number of shot attempts.
In basketball the shooting release isn't only about the moment the ball leaves his hands, it's a culmination of the entire motion. If you look at tht picture you can see how he
"5 years" of empirical evidence? You're trying to fluff it up to make it sound good, but you and I both know it's 85 3 point attempts.
If you can prove to me he becomes more hesitant to shoot when the moment is bigger, I will Paypal you $50. You have my word.
You can keep trying to explain it away all you want but it doesn't change.
It does not indicate nothing as he played so short amount of time and still is an NBA rookie.
I would like to see him playing more consistent minutes because now it seems like he just goes for every play to prove something.
Harris and Korver took turns scoring on Green and he still gets a B, is he backed up by the church of scientology or something?
I have absolutely no problem with someone having unorthodox shooting mechanics. Reggie Miller is someone that I will use as an example. He was a pretty darn good shooter that didn't have a picture perfect shot, but I don't care about that, because he was able to get his shot off in the playoffs and make it. Reggie was one of my favorite shooters, don't really want to admit that now after I have heard his commentating, but yeah, he was one of my favorites and he never had a perfect set shot.
Bonner is different, he has a slow release that isn't accurate unless he has time to wind it up. NBA playoff defenses don't allow you to camp out at the 3 point line so you can wind up to shoot the ball. Bonner himself said that he was working on a quicker release during the off season earlier this season, which is the first time I ever heard him say that. You pretty much have no argument, Bonner obviously knows it is a big problem that was exposed in the playoffs yet again, otherwise he wouldn't have been working on it. He needs time to set and shoot, because when they run him off the three point line he becomes useless, as he can't get a shot off quickly, or shoot on the move at all.
If you are a shooter, it's pretty easy to work out why Bonner struggles in the playoffs. I take it you're not much of a shooter?
Last edited by Ice009; 01-20-2013 at 06:20 AM.
That was one ugly win
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