Rockets: Morey Is a Good GM? No.

[racm]

So this hoopshype salary tables are wrong. They counted 15mil against the cap

They count as 8.3 million cap wise but they're still paid 15 million in effect. It would have been 5/5/15 if Chicago/New York matched.

[Mal]

They count as 8.3 million cap wise but they're still paid 15 million in effect. It would have been 5/5/15 if Chicago/New York matched.

I do understand this deal. I wasnt aware at the time. Hoopshype got sum of Rockets salaries for 2014/15 standing as 51mil $, with Harden, Asik, Lin getting 15mil each. That confused me. If the real cap hit of those deals are 8,3mil, that means Rockets got 36mil in the books, rather than 51 mil.

And of course those contracts are 8,3mil expiring, not 15, am I right on this ?

[Raven]

You brush off the the fact that he had crappy draft slots, then say "its expected to get at least one superstar." I think he's done pretty well. For a team that had spent years trying to build around Yao only to see him end his career that way, I'm sure it was rough to deal with the rebuilding process when you have a roster meant to contend, but missing a star. He spent recent years clearing up cap space to make the moves he has made. Asik, Lin were gambles that appeared to have worked. They traded two 4's for Robinson (most potential of any of those guys traded) plus it opened up minutes for D-Mo, another 4. They had an excess of scrub power forwards they had to get rid of, and did well for themselves. They are also in position to pick up Dwight via sign and trade with Asik.

actually he's the one who traded for and drafted all those pf-s, some of them were even cutted.. really, aside from the harden trade, i don't see what good has he done.. choosing lin over dragič is dumb, the draft was a big loss despite the available talent, he failed completely on his quest to sign a star in free agency.. i like the delfino signing, but honestly, wasn't being first round fodder/9th place exactly what houston didn't want to be? also, they will not sign howard (miracles happen though) so how will they use all that cap space? He has been lucky, but at some point you need results..

[Seventyniner]

If Morey was better at drafting he'd look a lot more like a genius. The trades and FA signings have been solid.

[024]

meh, the rockets did a pretty good job rebuilding. the effectiveness of the robinson for patterson trade will yet to be determined and signing jeremy lin to such a large contract was highly questionable. they wanted to win and rebuild at the same time which is always a bad tactic. thus, they couldn't benefit from multiple high lottery picks like the thunder. however, they still managed to pick up a franchise player in harden and another promising young big in asik. add that with the cap space to sign another superstar, the rockets might be a 3-4 seed next year.

just look at the kings, bobcats, wizards, and pistons who have been rebuilding for eternity and you will see that morey is in no way a bad gm.

[wekko368]

If Morey was better at drafting he'd look a lot more like a genius. The trades and FA signings have been solid.

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?

[Seventyniner]

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?

I didn't say Morey's drafting was bad, just that it wasn't great. I meant that the trades and FA signings have been great, so with great drafting it would be a trifecta and therefore he'd be a genius.

You can't give him credit for Budinger at #44 without docking him for taking Jermaine Taylor at #32 and Sergio Llull at #34 in the same draft. He also could have kept Nic Batum instead of trading him for Donte Greene, Joey Dorsey, and a second-round pick.

Brooks was a solid pick, and Parsons was a steal. I'll give you that. Carl Landry was a good pick too.

Patterson was good value at #14, but Morris seemed like a reach. The fact that the Rockets dumped him for a second-rounder seems to back that up.

And none of this mentions Ryce White.

As for whose drafting does impress me, I'll take the homer route. Kupchak does a decent job with the picks he gets, too.

[sook]

Given his draft positioning, how can you criticize his drafting....especially when you consider what he did with those pieces?

Morey drafted Aaron Brooks at the end of the first round and eventually traded him for Dragic. We got Budinger in the 2nd round, and he eventually became a rotational player. With our two first round #14 picks, we got Patterson and Morris, and we flipped them for Thomas Robinson (this year's #5 pick). And with last year's late 1st round pick and 2nd round pick, we got Dmo and Parsons. Both of them are currently in our starting lineup.

If you're not impressed with Morey's drafting, whose drafting does impress you?

Did you not read the OP....it wasn't Morey's decision to draft Brooks, Adelman convinced him to since he watched him play in college and thought he would be good for his system. Landry was scouted by CD before and was the one to tell morey to draft him since it was his first year as GM. He has come out and admitted this.

[wekko368]

You can't give him credit for Budinger at #44 without docking him for taking Jermaine Taylor at #32 and Sergio Llull at #34 in the same draft.

Why not? The success rate of 2nd round picks is very slim. If they don't pan out, no big dea. That's par for the course. But if a 2nd rounder does turn into a rotational player, then the GM deserves a lot of credit.

He also could have kept Nic Batum instead of trading him for Donte Greene, Joey Dorsey, and a second-round pick.

You're forgetting that at the time, we had Yao/McGrady and were in win-now mode. We traded Greene, Bobby Jackson (who we acquired by trading Bonzi Wells and Mike James), and a first round pick for Ron Artest. After that trade, we looked pretty good on paper.

Patterson was good value at #14, but Morris seemed like a reach. The fact that the Rockets dumped him for a second-rounder seems to back that up.

Not really a logical assumption. Both Dmo and Robinson have more potential than Morris so it makes sense that Morris was traded. You may think we "dumped" him, but in the grand scheme of things, we save on guaranteed salary and Phoenix's 2nd round draft pick looks like it'll be pretty good.

And none of this mentions Ryce White.

Yep, that sucked, but everyone knew that taking White with the #16 was a high-risk, high-reward move.

As for whose drafting does impress me, I'll take the homer route. Kupchak does a decent job with the picks he gets, too.

The only rotational players I can think of are Bynum, Luke Walton, and Vujacic. Who am I missing?

[wekko368]

Did you not read the OP....it wasn't Morey's decision to draft Brooks, Adelman convinced him to since he watched him play in college and thought he would be good for his system. Landry was scouted by CD before and was the one to tell morey to draft him since it was his first year as GM. He has come out and admitted this.

Yep, I did read the OP, but it was wrong. Coaches and assistants can advise all they want, but ultimately, drafting is the GM's decision. If he's going to get the criticism, then he also deserves the praise.

For instance, look at all the flak Morey gets b/c of Royce White. He didn't even want White. McHale convinced Morey to draft him. Nevertheless, White is garbage and Morey rightfully deserves the blame.

[Seventyniner]

Why not? The success rate of 2nd round picks is very slim. If they don't pan out, no big dea. That's par for the course. But if a 2nd rounder does turn into a rotational player, then the GM deserves a lot of credit.

Fair point, though #32 and #34 are two of the most coveted positions in the draft outside the lottery. Then again, it's not like GMs consistently find good players there.

You're forgetting that at the time, we had Yao/McGrady and were in win-now mode. We traded Greene, Bobby Jackson (who we acquired by trading Bonzi Wells and Mike James), and a first round pick for Ron Artest. After that trade, we looked pretty good on paper.

The Artest trade was fine. Too bad he was already a Laker before he actually signed in LA. Still, the return on that pick alone wasn't much, and even in win-now mode you can't afford to waste assets.

Not really a logical assumption. Both Dmo and Robinson have more potential than Morris so it makes sense that Morris was traded. You may think we "dumped" him, but in the grand scheme of things, we save on guaranteed salary and Phoenix's 2nd round draft pick looks like it'll be pretty good.

Morris was the right one to trade (between he and Dmo), but it was still a trade down. Yes, that Phoenix pick will be good, but the aforementioned #32 and #34 picks didn't work out well, so if that pick ends up being a bust, it'll be a waste of a #14 pick.

Yep, that sucked, but everyone knew that taking White with the #16 was a high-risk, high-reward move.

I didn't know that bit about Morey not wanting White. Do you know if it was because of the anxiety issue?

The only rotational players I can think of are Bynum, Luke Walton, and Vujacic. Who am I missing?

I only thought of the Lakers because they don't seem to have many busts, and get decent value in the 2nd round. Not really comparable to the Rockets' situation. In fact, the Lakers just don't get that many picks period. Then I looked at the list again and saw Javaris Crittenton. My mistake.

Of course, their 2nd round picks might look decent only because they see the court due to the Lakers not having a lot of depth recently, not because they're actually good players.

[sook]

Yep, I did read the OP, but it was wrong. Coaches and assistants can advise all they want, but ultimately, drafting is the GM's decision. If he's going to get the criticism, then he also deserves the praise.

For instance, look at all the flak Morey gets b/c of Royce White. He didn't even want White. McHale convinced Morey to draft him. Nevertheless, White is garbage and Morey rightfully deserves the blame.

How is it wrong? A guy out of MIT with LIMITED b-ball knowledge listens to the coach and the previous GM on who to draft and he gets credited for it? If I was GM and I listened to what they said would that make me a great GM, great at building a championship team, great at having an eye for talent? No it wouldn't , because that is what we are talking about here. Buddinger and Parsons have been his best draft choices. It would be unfair to call him out about Royce White crapping the bed because that would make what I said hypocritical , I don't fault him for that.

[wekko368]

How is it wrong?

Like I said before, drafting is the GM's responsibility. He can have all the advisers in the world, but at the end of the day, its his call.

So he does get credit for Brooks and Landry.....just like he gets criticism for White.

[Latarian Milton]

actually he's the one who traded for and drafted all those pf-s, some of them were even cutted.. really, aside from the harden trade, i don't see what good has he done.. choosing lin over dragič is dumb, the draft was a big loss despite the available talent, he failed completely on his quest to sign a star in free agency.. i like the delfino signing, but honestly, wasn't being first round fodder/9th place exactly what houston didn't want to be? also, they will not sign howard (miracles happen though) so how will they use all that cap space? He has been lucky, but at some point you need results..

dragic might be a better player but Rin has more market value, which was the main reason he chose him imho. morey has done a good job agglutinating a bag of craps into a legit playoff team, but i wouldn't never expect them to achieve more than that when they're based in a small market and their boss is such a stingy asshole.

the tiest moves the rockets have made in the past decade were drafting yao with the #1 pick in 02 and re-signing him to a lucrative contract when he was almost done, but morey has nothing to do with those moves tbh