THIS too
Timmy is so great, it's hard what else to say at this point.
I also think Timmy is one of the few people who can really speak or relate to Kawhi, in the sense that they've both lost a parent at a young age, and had to mature beyond their years.
There is an eerie symmetry between the two, kind of crazy how Kawhi ended up here. Hopefully he can be the next great Spur.
I noticed Tim hug him towards the end as well, just a great moment.
What vid?
I bet that was due to Pop's pressure on Kawhi before game 3.
Remember the days when TP used to talk about the pressure during his rookie days-Pop constantly on his ear... look where is he now..he's on the elite list. It paid off. Kawhi is not just a role player he is mold to be the next generation of the Spurs team so this is just the beginning. And thanks for Duncan in helping his teammates understand their role . He's the common denominator of the team's 4 les, he should know how. I know Kawhi will be very good, far greater than he is today, someday.
end of the game i dont have a link though
It's absolutely essential that the top 8-9 players are in a good place mentally. Duncan knows the team can't afford to lose Leonard.
Rudy Gay took Kawhi's lunch in their first game against each other. Metta World Peace also beats him up.
I doubt he's "facing his own mortality," though. Leonard isn't the defensive jack-of-all-trades people on this board make him out to be. He often doesn't guard the other team's best perimeter defender. He's good on big twos and threes. That's greats, as many of the best players in the league fit that description. But he's never been good on points.
Disagree. Kawhi has defended 1 to 4's, he's definely a jack-of-all trades defender unless you define it differently. His defense when defending faster guards on screens and pick and rolls have been pretty average and on rare occasions bad, but it's something that can be easily fixed IMO. Also, even the greatest of defenders get beat from time to time, that's a given.
I was responding to a post saying Kawhi's struggles are the result of him dealing with a player beating him for the first time. That's not true. Leonard's been beaten plenty of times in his career. I doubt he's particularly upset about Curry. Getting beat doesn't make him a bad defender by any stretch.
Kawhi's defended 1-4s ... but not really. He can't play on points except for short stretches with a lot of help, and I haven't seen him check a legitimate big yet outside of Gasol for a couple of possessions last series. He's a wing defender, which is nice to have due to most elite players being wings nowadays. But at least right now, that's pretty much all he is. He doesn't get moved around enough to be considered that versatile; he almost always just guards the opposing small-forward. Yet people think he's clearly the best defender on team (the "captain of the perimeter defense" even), and they're not inclined to change that opinion no matter what actually goes on during games. I think it's unfair to him. People keep trying to make him out to be a star when he should just be allowed to be a role-player.
If he develops into an All-Star, great. But for now, he's nowhere near being part of the Big 4, nor is he Bruce Bowen.
Last edited by Chinook; 05-12-2013 at 09:23 AM.
Mr. Leonard on Thompson and Mr. Green on Curry seems to be our sweet spot, with Mr. Parker on Jack.
Leonard is better against smaller bigs and regular sized wings. Smaller ball-handling guards are his weakness, especially since he tends to go under screens and play the drive. Not a good idea against a shooter like Curry, so Green is better in this regard.
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/co...944c91927fc3fb
“I've been trying to play a little angry,” he said. “I feel like I play better that way.”
This stood out to me in the game. I laughed when I saw Tim bend all the way down to get like at eye level with him. lolanybody else noticed it during the game, 21 was all over Kawhi giving him confidence the whole game and at the end they were hugging and laughing at the bench
end of 2nd quarter
The one where Tim is leaning down at halfcourt, I'm pretty sure he's chewing chewing him out a bit. This is right after kawhi and Manu were 2v2 fastbreaking and kawhi didn't give it up. Duncan chewed him out in the regular season not too long ago because kawhi faked a behind the back pass to Tim and then got fouled or missed on a fastbreak. Tim just reminding him of what to do there. Good stuff.
Kawhi Angry???? I wonder who's teaching him that one.
These are all by design. Kawhi doesn't need to check opposing 4's when you've got TD-splitter-Diaw.
Yes, he's clearly the best permiter defender on the team who else do you think is better?Leonard and Green are the only two above average perimeter defender in the team. Tony has his moment, but he clearly has the offense to worry about more. He had to check Jefferson a couple of times and Milsap last year. His "versatility" really is just about the fact that he's got size and strength and can be used to defend the 4's if need be not that it's the best defensive option to use.
I doubt anyone thinks he's an all-star at this point of his career, but he certainly has the most potential in the team. I really don't want to go on about the fact that kid can score in so many ways, that's not to say his great at it, but his shown that he has got enough offensive skills and enough potential to become a star one day.
When you've been averaging the 15 a game the last 40 games or so alongside the fact that you're a good defender, and that guys like luol deng are making the all-star, i don't see any reason why a fan shouldn't be optimistic about his future.
Heck he is averaging 14-10 in a second series. If you really think he's potential is just as good as Green then you're just hating tbh.
Is he a role-player? Yes. If he played on a scrubby team would he be more than that? Yes.
The stretch he played without parker-Manu is the reason why people are so optimistic about this guy.
It's Tim, not Kawhi I believe...btw, does anyone have anymore pictures of Tim and Kawhi during the game?
Kawhi Angry???? I wonder who's teaching him that one.
That's true, but it doesn't mean that he's capable of defending fours. Small-ball fours, definitely, but not real bigs.
No, he's not clearly anything. The Spurs' top defender is a rotating cast depending on the player who needs guarding. Leonard is not the top option against most players, or a plurality of players. It's hard to say the Spurs view him as the clear-cut top dog in that category. Think back to all the tough match-ups this season and think how many of them Leonard guarded. From my count, he only checked Joe Johnson, Kobe, Gay, Durant and Paul George. That's a great list of players to be able to guard, for sure. But Eric Gordan, Moe Williams, Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, and other guards went to other players. In crunch time, he rarely got the assignment, either. He's not like Bowen who would guard the best perimeter player regardless of position. Leonard guards one type of player really well, but struggles against most other types. He's great in help defense, which is another great value.Yes, he's clearly the best permiter defender on the team who else do you think is better?Leonard and Green are the only two above average perimeter defender in the team. Tony has his moment, but he clearly has the offense to worry about more. He had to check Jefferson a couple of times and Milsap last year. His "versatility" really is just about the fact that he's got size and strength and can be used to defend the 4's if need be not that it's the best defensive option to use.
When you have people constantly saying Leonard needs to get forcefed at the expense of the Big Three or saying that Leonard is unguardable by any remaining playoff teams, you can see that some people honestly do believe Leonard is closer to a star now than a role-player. Those people aren't talking about potential.I doubt anyone thinks he's an all-star at this point of his career, but he certainly has the most potential in the team. I really don't want to go on about the fact that kid can score in so many ways, that's not to say his great at it, but his shown that he has got enough offensive skills and enough potential to become a star one day.
When you've been averaging the 15 a game the last 40 games or so alongside the fact that you're a good defender, and that guys like luol deng are making the all-star, i don't see any reason why a fan shouldn't be optimistic about his future.
Heck he is averaging 14-10 in a second series. If you really think he's potential is just as good as Green then you're just hating tbh.
Leonard has the best potential out of every young player on the roster or overseas. That's as true as the day is long. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about people acting like he's already there. He has tons of holes in his game, and people want those holes exposed more by forcing him the ball or demanding that he try to guard players he's not suited to guard. Leonard is a role-player because he has REAL limitations to his game. He has the potential to overcome those and be a solid upper-tier small-forward. But he's not there, and in my opinion, he won't ever be as good as people seem to think.
If your definition of a star is Luol Deng or Paul George (as he is right now), then I can see where you're coming from. But if you reserve the term for franchise-caliber players like I do, I think Leonard falls way short. He's a great piece to a championship puzzle, but a team with him as their best player is first-round fodder at best.
GOAT since Jordan. Get the f... out of here with that Kobe and Lebron garbage. The team's go-to scorer IN ADDITION to being one of the greatest defenders of all time? Not to mention, 50+ wins per season and never missing the playoffs. Undisputed best player on the team for four les and you could probably make the case that he's still the most valuable player on this team.
The only three players that regularly rotate (with enough quality time) on opposing perimeter players is Tony-Kawhi-Green. It's not difficult to see that he is the better out of those three. Green Guards the smaller and faster 1-2's better but is piss poor on guarding 3's and longer 2's. Tony can Guard 1's pretty well if need be, but has to concentrate most of his energy offensively. Kawhi Is damn good at defending the 3 and longer 2's and isn't exactly a liability when guarding 1's ( see kawhi guarding curry in game 2). Now tell me who among these three are the better and versatile perimeter defender?
I like to differentiate Borderline star players-Star Players-Superstar.If your definition of a star is Luol Deng or Paul George (as he is right now), then I can see where you're coming from. But if you reserve the term for franchise-caliber players like I do, I think Leonard falls way short. He's a great piece to a championship puzzle, but a team with him as their best player is first-round fodder at best.
No one is advocating for kawhi to steal touches. It be disastrous if the spurs suddenly start giving him the green light with the big three is out three since the role players (Green, Neal, Splitter etc) are clearly not ready for a new "star" on the team as evidence with the offense being completely stagnat when kawhi creates for himself. What people Inlucing guys like TIMVP or HH and the rest are talking about, particularly for this series for instance, is recognizing match-ups.When you have people constantly saying Leonard needs to get forcefed at the expense of the Big Three or saying that Leonard is unguardable by any remaining playoff teams, you can see that some people honestly do believe Leonard is closer to a star now than a role-player. Those people aren't talking about potential.
When he's averaging 10 shots a game without having to call plays for him, it's only natural to think he should be averaging more than that if the spurs put on an effort to giving him the ball on the post if he has the smaller guard. Something only Ginobili recognizes for some reason. He has had a ton of match-up advatange, Ginobili is clearly the only guy who recognizes this on the floor. If pop advocates giving him the ball if there is a mis-match ( you don't need to call plays for him since tony and timmy are having a great year) which is naturally what most coaches would do, you'd be looking at a 16-8 guy. That's where the star "talk" comes from..the fact that he's a few touches away from having a luol deng like number.
Leonard did pretty well on Gasol in game 4 last round. He was too quick and long for Gasol to post him up.
No one. That's the point. It's not right to say, "I know Leonard doesn't guard the hardest assignment most of the time, but he's clearly the best defender." It's ambiguous. That's not to say Leonard is clearly not the best defender, just that he's not automatically the best option to defend most perimeter players.
And don't forget Ginobili. He's defense is underrated.
Nothing wrong with that, especially if you define what you mean by each category. I just have the one category, but there's no inherent right or wrong in that stance.I like to differentiate Borderline star players-Star Players-Superstar.
I think we all agree that Leonard needs to be more assertive on offense. He doesn't get more opportunities because he doesn't fight hard enough to get open. Very truly, though, the Spurs should give him the ball when he has a small on him in the post. That should just be part of the offense. It would help everyone get better shots. But you do have posters claiming he should get a set number of shots a game, like he's Durant. The Spurs' offense just doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't.No one is advocating for kawhi to steal touches. It be disastrous if the spurs suddenly start giving him the green light with the big three is out three since the role players (Green, Neal, Splitter etc) are clearly not ready for a new "star" on the team as evidence with the offense being completely stagnat when kawhi creates for himself. What people Inlucing guys like TIMVP or HH and the rest are talking about, particularly for this series for instance, is recognizing match-ups.
When he's averaging 10 shots a game without having to call plays for him, it's only natural to think he should be averaging more than that if the spurs put on an effort to giving him the ball on the post if he has the smaller guard. Something only Ginobili recognizes for some reason. He has had a ton of match-up advatange, Ginobili is clearly the only guy who recognizes this on the floor. If pop advocates giving him the ball if there is a mis-match ( you don't need to call plays for him since tony and timmy are having a great year) which is naturally what most coaches would do, you'd be looking at a 16-8 guy. That's where the star "talk" comes from..the fact that he's a few touches away from having a luol deng like number.
Again, I don't want this to be construed as me bashing Leonard. I'm not. But for the life of me, I don't understand why people can't just let players be who they are. Everyone's always putting players down to prop up others. We should be able to honest about each of their strengths and weaknesses.
I mentioned this up-tread. He played well, but he had a lot of help. It was similar to one of the Portland games where Green had to check Aldridge. It worked for a bit, but it wasn't sustainable. Leonard also did a good job on David West, if I recall correctly.
Let's leave it to Kawhi Leonard being the most versatile perimeter defender then. About Ginobili, He's always been a smart defender, but he's been very inconsistent the last couple of seasons tbh. He's having a great half so far in game 4, but consistency matters and Ginobili hasn't had that for over a year.
I have to admit, It's fairly easy to post Kawhi is gonna be a star, Kawhi's gonna be this and that after a dominating performace on the defensive end and shade of star like performance in the offensive end which he did have late in the season when parker was out. I'd like to think most people or at least a good number of them who post those comments are just in the heat of the moment. I know I have posted somehwat similar stuff in game and a minute or two after games.
And in their defense, ( Not me) Ginobilis has had a terrible year. Only Natural to find a replacement.
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