Wizards reportedly working deal with Lakers, Kwame for Butler

[strangeweather]

Well, If Phil can't do it, no one else can. It could be a stretch though. All I hope is that the Lakers shed some of the SF's and get more balanced. This will be the first true year with Kobe being the main option. Last year was an experiment with different systems and players. This year will be more balanced.

Phil is a terrific coach, but it's not like he has a big rep for developing kids.

Even without Brown, I think the Lakers will be better simply because Phil has a plan for them to follow. But they'd be better served finding veterans, even if they didn't have the same potential.

[50 & 21]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Fill Jackson knew way ahead of time that the Lakers were going to be bad last year, but at the same time knew he was going to return to coaching this year. That Zen Master is one sly guy! I think the Lakers should have had Kobe take most of the season off with his court case. They might have a Williams instead of a 5-6 years removed-from- contributing Bynum. It's really hard to say what the plan is for them, even though I'm in Lakerland, the Lakers are a very sore subject at the moment.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If this goes down it will add balance to the Lakers

Huh? Butler was arguably LA's second most consistent player after Kobe, and y'all are trading him for a headcase frontcourt player.

You've already got one headcase in Kobe, adding a second one isn't a good idea.

[caspian]

However, I am not sold on Jackson developing young talent, never had a history of doing so.

Um...Kobe?...MJ?...

[Medvedenko]

Exactly...Phil has a plan...it's just getting Mitch Cupcake to adhere to his philosophy.
I'm excited for next season.

[pache100]

Um...Kobe?...MJ?...

No, he didn't develop any talent there. The talent was already there. Phil just sat back and watched. You can't operate on talent forever; at some point, you have to start working at it. MJ did it on his own. Kobe has not started yet. We'll see. Phil doesn't coach. He manages people (when the mood strikes him...not so much the last year he was in LA). There is a big difference.

[SWC Bonfire]

However, I am not sold on Jackson developing young talent, never had a history of doing so.

Who was it who had the sig "let Phil Jackson try that zen crap on the Clippers"? Change that to the Lakers now.

Kwame needs somebody like Larry Brown or Pop, not Phil Jackson. He needs somebody to get all up in his business.

[Joesteds]

Kwame needs somebody like Larry Brown or Pop, not Phil Jackson. He needs somebody to get all up in his business.

Popovich would probably be good for him but I dont think Larry Brown would be. He doesnt like playing young talent and thats been proven through the years. We see how Darko just love larry brown

[genghisrex]

Kwame needs somebody like Larry Brown or Pop, not Phil Jackson.

That sounds like an excellent idea...

[50 & 21]

Here's some pertinent information on the matter:

Kwame Brown |*5
Position:* F-C
Born: Mar 10, 1982
Height: 6-11*/* 2,11
Weight: 243 *lbs. /*110,2 *kg.
High School : Glynn Academy HS (GA)
Career Highlights
* The first high school player ever selected with the first overall pick in the NBA Draft
* Scored a career-high 14 points vs. L.A. Lakers on 4/2/02
CAREER AVERAGES
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
01-02 WAS 57 3 14.3 .387 .000 .707 1.1 2.4 3.5 .8 .28 .46 .75 1.8 4.5
02-03 WAS 80 20 22.2 .446 .000 .668 1.6 3.7 5.3 .7 .63 1.0 1.4 2.0 7.4
03-04 WAS 74 57 30.3 .489 .500 .683 2.4 5.0 7.4 1.5 .9 .70 1.9 1.9 10.9
04-05 WAS 42 14 21.6 .460 .000 .574 1.7 3.2 4.9 .9 .60 .36 1.6 2.7 7.0

Caron Butler |*1
Position:* F
Born: Mar 13, 1980
Height: 6-7*/* 2,01
Weight: 217 *lbs. /*98,4 *kg.
College : Connecticut
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.862) *Ranks #16 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(0.88)
CAREER AVERAGES
* * * * * * * *
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OR DR RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
02-03 MIA *78 78 36.6 .416 .318 .824 1.7 3.4 5.1 2.7 1.8 .40 2.5 2.9 15.4
03-04 MIA 68 56 29.9 .380 .238 .756 1.4 3.4 4.8 1.9 1.1 .19 1.3 2.4 9.2*
04-05 LAL 77 77 35.7 .445 .304 .862 1.9 3.9 5.8 1.9 1.4 .30 1.6 2.8 15.5

[caspian]

No, he didn't develop any talent there. The talent was already there. Phil just sat back and watched. You can't operate on talent forever; at some point, you have to start working at it. MJ did it on his own. Kobe has not started yet. We'll see. Phil doesn't coach. He manages people (when the mood strikes him...not so much the last year he was in LA). There is a big difference.

What? You're saying that he couldn't have developed any talent there because it was already there...?

...and so Phil can't possibly develop Kwame because his talent is already there...?

...and "Kobe has not started yet"?...are you kidding?

[ambchang]

Um...Kobe?...MJ?...

Jordan was already an established star in the league before Jackson arrived. 37.1 ppg, 35 the season after.
Jackson took his star and led them to championships.
Bryant was a 20 ppg scorer before Jackson came.

[ambchang]

What? You're saying that he couldn't have developed any talent there because it was already there...?

...and so Phil can't possibly develop Kwame because his talent is already there...?

...and "Kobe has not started yet"?...are you kidding?

I believe the argument is that Jackson never had a history of developing talent. To be fair, he never had much young talent to work with, other than perhaps Kukoc, who never lived up to his hype.
So far, Jackson has never proved to be a coach who can develop young talent, but that is not to say that he can't do it, just that he hasn't shown any evidence of doing so.

[caspian]

Jordan was already an established star in the league before Jackson arrived. 37.1 ppg, 35 the season after.
Jackson took his star and led them to championships.
Bryant was a 20 ppg scorer before Jackson came.

Didn't Phil play Kobe sparingly and didn't even start him at first?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This deal might just be the final straw that breaks Mitch's back.

[ambchang]

Didn't Phil play Kobe sparingly and didn't even start him at first?

Kobe averaged 22.5 ppg in the first season under Jackson.

[nkdlunch]

I really hope this trade goes down! Kwame is a scrub who couldnt even put up decent numbers w/the big 3 in his team Hughes, Arenas and Jamison. He will fit in well with the LA Lotteries

[caspian]

Kobe averaged 22.5 ppg in the first season under Jackson.

Man, my memory is failing me.

Did he start that year?

[pache100]

What? You're saying that he couldn't have developed any talent there because it was already there...?

...and so Phil can't possibly develop Kwame because his talent is already there...?

...and "Kobe has not started yet"?...are you kidding?

I didn't say "he couldn't", I said "he didn't". Quit putting words in my mouth. He didn't need to "develop talent" in those cases, the talent was already there, fullblown. MJ worked. Kobe hasn't started WORKING yet, he's still running on sheer talent. You can't do that forever. I didn't make any assessment about "Phil can't possibly develop Kwame because his talent is already there", so again, quit putting words in my mouth.

[pache100]

I really hope this trade goes down! Kwame is a scrub who couldnt even put up decent numbers w/the big 3 in his team Hughes, Arenas and Jamison. He will fit in well with the LA Lotteries

I can go along with that!

[caspian]

I didn't say "he couldn't", I said "he didn't". Quit putting words in my mouth. He didn't need to "develop talent" in those cases, the talent was already there, fullblown. MJ worked. Kobe hasn't started WORKING yet, he's still running on sheer talent. You can't do that forever. I didn't make any assessment about "Phil can't possibly develop Kwame because his talent is already there", so again, quit putting words in my mouth.

If you noticed, those were all questions...

You can't question words into people's mouths...

[SWC Bonfire]

Popovich would probably be good for him but I dont think Larry Brown would be. He doesnt like playing young talent and thats been proven through the years. We see how Darko just love larry brown

Well, good point, but you know what I meant.

Think LB riding herd on David Robinson his rookie year.

[ducks]

phil jackson handled rodman
I thought he did not do a good job on kobe and shaq though
but he can handle a headcase

[pache100]

If you noticed, those are all questions...

You can't question words into people's mouths...

You took my words and twisted them around and made it sound like I was saying something I did not say, whether it was in the form of a question or not. I don't do that to you or anyone else, and I don't appreciate it being done to me. I generally mean what I say. No need to embellish my words or try to turn them into something else. If I'm not clear, ask me what I meant, plain and simple. If I notice I've not been clear, I'll clarify. But stop with the twisting.

[caspian]

You took my words and twisted them around and made it sound like I was saying something I did not say, whether it was in the form of a question or not. I don't do that to you or anyone else, and I don't appreciate it being done to me. I generally mean what I say. No need to embellish my words or try to turn them into something else. If I'm not clear, ask me what I meant, plain and simple. If I notice I've not been clear, I'll clarify. But stop with the twisting.

It's a QUESTION. You answer "yes" or "no" to confirm or disconfirm that I understand your position.

If I did not understand it, that's not twisting. I'm trying to interpret you...your words weren't terribly clear. Ambchang expressed your argument well.