Does a player need to be a threat to score in order to effectively run an offense?

[barakz21]

Personally, I think it's the latter. Of course, it used to be the former in seasons past. But Manu this past season has been pretty much Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Unfortunately, he's been more Hyde then Jekyll, so most defenders would probably go "bring it". Case in point, the finals. And just to be clear, I am not bashing Manu.

[racm]

Kidd created a lot of assists through his ability to coordinate a fastbreak and his size allowing him to grab rebounds and fling outlet passes. That was why that Nets team was perfect for him - a mostly young and athletic group.

As long as Manu's deep ball makes a recovery (I think his shooting woes were created by him playing through two hamstring injuries) he should be a enough of a threat to run the second unit offense. Of course, Parker/Duncan/Leonard should be the focus of the starter's offense, with Green and Splitter as the designated shooter and close-up finisher respectively.

And if this is gonna be another Manu hate thread please tone it down. The offseason is winding down and it's soon time to see whether you guys are vindicated or not. Let's give the balding Argentinian the benefit of the doubt for now; do you really think he received his thirty pieces of silver from Pat Riley to give Miami their third?

[HI-FI]

Manu can be good for us in spurts throughout the RS, but I can't believe people think he'll come through in the playoffs. Those days are gone. Perhaps for one game out of a series. But we all have to pray hail mary's that he doesn't get hurt, or turn the ball over in crunch time. At this point we just need him to speak Spanish while holding a bottle of HEB salsa verde, sell some tickets and hold the fort down occasionally.

I'm hoping more that Bellinelli and Nando take a step forward, because I think Manu has reached his limit. If he can stay healthy, massive If, then we'll see what he is capable of but I'm hoping those other two can at least be poor man Ginobili's, because that's better than what we got this year.

[racm]

Manu can be good for us in spurts throughout the RS, but I can't believe people think he'll come through in the playoffs. Those days are gone. Perhaps for one game out of a series. But we all have to pray hail mary's that he doesn't get hurt, or turn the ball over in crunch time. At this point we just need him to speak Spanish while holding a bottle of HEB salsa verde, sell some tickets and hold the fort down occasionally.

I'm hoping more that Bellinelli and Nando take a step forward, because I think Manu has reached his limit. If he can stay healthy, massive If, then we'll see what he is capable of but I'm hoping those other two can at least be poor man Ginobili's, because that's better than what we got this year.

Can't really disagree here. I think the key is that he has to rein in his reckless playing style, but that was what made him a threat in his prime.

I'd still trust him over RJ though.

[HI-FI]

Can't really disagree here. I think the key is that he has to rein in his reckless playing style, but that was what made him a threat in his prime.

I'd still trust him over RJ though.

I don't think you'd find any argument from anyone on here, except people who take vacation pics like this.....

sorry this pic always scars people.

[Skull-1]

My eyes! My eyes!!!!

[exstatic]

Rajon Rondo

[barakz21]

RJ DOES look gay here, even without the other dudes. Oh, good times (making fun of him, before thee 09 season began)

[cd021]

The answer: no Rondo is a prime example

That is somewhat outdated. Rondo can hit jumpers now. It takes time for his reputation to change like Parkers did.

The better example would be Ricky Rubio.

[SpurSwag]

Great topic OP, something we can actually talk about that doesn't lead to 6, Kobe > Duncan or any of that bs. I don't think you need to be a scorer to be an asset but imo you need to be able to hit open 3's. I've thought this for a while with the way the league is moving and the perfect example was the playoffs this year. I knew the Spurs would beat memphis so easily because they didn't have any shooters who could make us pay for doubling. There's a reason Miami and the Spurs were in the finals, they both shoot the long ball so efficiently to complement their best all around players

[Gagnrath]

A player doesn't need to be a threat to score to facilitate an offense. That said some of it also depends on his role in the offense there really does need to be someone on the floor that can reliably create a good shot. The spurs second team with Manu, Joseph, and Bellinelli some combination of Diaw, Pendegraph, Splitter, and/or Baynes, doesn't have anyone that can regularly create their own shot. Which pretty much means that at least one of Kawhi, Parker, or Duncan is on the floor with the second team much of the time.

Manu used to be that guy and for the last couple of years neal relased some of that pressure as well. You can also mask it somewhat with good ball movement, unless bellinelli is a much better ball handler than I think this role of primary on the second team is goign to be shared between Joseph who is 2 years away from it and manu who is 2 years to done.

[anakha]

Stockton may not have been a threat to score one on one, but he ran the pick and roll so effectively that he had to be accounted for at all times in that play.

[diego]

kidd had either a team full of young athletes, dominant scorers like vince/dirk/melo, and also a good 3pt shot in the last years. when he shot terribly from 3p% (like last year), he wasnt very effective now was he?

Up until a couple years ago manu didnt need another scorer, because he took that role and would only pass once the d focused on him. Now he needs another scorer on the floor with him so the defense cant just collapse on him. And since his 3pt shot was terrible this playoffs (an injury related anomaly or a permanent loss?), the heat could very easily focus on just taking his passing lanes away.

I think if manu can get his legs under him to recover his shooting %, beli/splitter/green/leonard can draw more defensive attention, between those two things manu should be able to find more space to operate and make his passes. The heat trapped manu with impunity, but manu wasnt the only one who didnt make them pay (splitter being the main culprit IMO). And I think not getting calls definitely makes a huge influence, one because you drive less so you rely more on passing and shooting to break the defense and two because you get caught by traps more if you think the refs wont call contact on the perimeter. Other old guards like Kidd or Kobe get much more respect in that sense than manu ever will past or present.

[diego]

stockton was a great shooter playing with a physically dominant scoring forward. Of course he was accounted for!

[Skull-1]

Well a shooter would help Manu, but I just don't think he can live on passing ability alone.

[xmas1997]

Well a shooter would help Manu, but I just don't think he can live on passing ability alone.

Why do you have to whine about Manu on every single thread?
This thread isn't even about that. You should have worded it different if you wanted it to be about him.

[Skull-1]

Shut the f--k up you illiterate atheistic moron. Diego mentioned Manu and I responded. Get lost. You screw up every thread you are in.

[xmas1997]

Sounds like someone is butthurt again.
If you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen!
Or better yet, go back to the Mavs forum where you came from!

[Skull-1]

Sounds like someone is butthurt again.
If you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen!
Or better yet, go back to the Mavs forum where you came from!

And if you can't keep the facts straight then shut your mf'ing cakehole!

[xmas1997]

AJ seems a perfect fit.

[Yuixafun]

Being a good at passing is not enough, the threat of scoring is a must.

Because then defenses can just set up obviously, overload etc.. really muddles an offense.


And in regards to Kidd and Manu... way different players.

Manu will never be able to transition into a pure facilitator, he was a playmaker due to his dynamic scoring ability.

Your game can evolve to highlight different aspects, bring them to the forefront, but you cannot reinvent your nature.


And also.... Once someone has become a "Giant Tree..." DO you really believe they can accept being put into a "Flowerpot?"


Manu should retire and I used to love his game so much, 2005 Manu brought so much joy.

I'm sorry to say that it can only get worse with him.

It's like With Manny Pacquiao - Manu lost the eye of the Tiger, and his physical skills have diminished.

That's death to an elite athlete.

Your spirit, mental, and body are evaporating.


If he were stronger man maybe he could reclaim lost territory, active dormant factories within his body, (Mr. Tim Duncan) but at this point I don't see it.


Sorry I know I strayed from the topic, but the sheer stupidity of game 6 has ruined me on Manu forever whatever came before.

It was not just bad play.

It was murder. Like premeditated.

[Skull-1]

Hard to argue against any of your points, Yuixa.

[xmas1997]

Why is this thread another bash Manu thread?
Aren't there enough of those already?

[look_at_g_shred]

Nope.

[Skull-1]

Nope.