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  1. #26
    Gif-ted LakerHater's Avatar
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    Well see how much airtime this gets....
    ESPiN jus barely reported it!

  2. #27
    Gif-ted LakerHater's Avatar
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    Manziel's stats vs Winston's, adjusted for playing time


    By Matt Knipe

    Most of my family grew up in Florida and are huge Florida State fans (despite only my dad attending the university). I grew up loving Florida State before becoming an Aggie. I've been rooting for the Noles this year, but I believe that hands down Johnny deserves the Heisman again.
    Any time I get into that argument with family and friends, who are FSU fans, they say that Manziel's stats only appear to be better because he's had so much more playing time. I know FSU has dominated the majority of their opponents and Winston has sat out his fair share of quarters, but I thought their amount of playing time was closer than they thought. Nonetheless, this was an interesting point and I decided it was worth looking into.
    There are many ways to look at this. You could compare the overall stats by each quarterback to time of possession, number of drives, number of quarters played, etc. But due to the diferring styles of offenses, I figured the best approach would be to go by number of quarters played. So I dove into the play-by-plays for each game to determine exactly when each quarterback left the game and turned the ball over to their respective backup. I rounded each quarter to the nearest tenth and here are the results:
    Quarters Played by Johnny "Football" Manziel:
    · Rice - 2
    · Sam Houston - 2.6
    · Alabama - 4
    · SMU - 2.2
    · Arkansas - 4
    · Ole Miss - 4
    · Auburn - 4
    · Vanderbilt - 2.6
    · UTEP - 2.5
    · Mississippi State - 4
    Total - 31.9
    Quarters Played by "Famous" Jameis Winston:
    · Pittsburgh - 3.4
    · Nevada - 2.7
    · Bethune-Cookman - 2.1
    · Boston College - 4
    · Maryland - 3
    · Clemson - 4
    · NC State - 2.1
    · Miami - 4
    · Wake Forest - 2.2
    · Syracuse - 2
    Total - 29.5
    Now I wanted to attempt to "normalize" the overall stats for each Heisman contender with this information. Below are the actual overall stats:
    Johnny Manziel
    · Total yards - 3924
    · Passing yards - 3313
    · Rushing yards - 611
    · Total touchdowns - 39
    · Passing touchdowns - 31
    · Rushing touchdowns – 8
    Jameis Winston
    · Total yards - 3083
    · Passing yards - 2938
    · Rushing yards - 145
    · Total touchdowns - 31
    · Passing touchdowns - 28
    · Rushing touchdowns - 3
    In an attempt to make these stats more fair and less inflated in favor of the player with more playing time, I took the following approach:
    · Divide each category by the number of total quarters to get an average per quarter. For instance, divide total yards by Johnny (3924) by the number of total quarters played (31.9) to get the average total yards per quarter (123).
    · Multiply that average by 40. 40 quarters is the number of quarters that would have been played by each quarterback had they stayed in the entire game for all 10 of their games.
    Below are the "normalized" overall stats for each player with this approach:
    Johnny Manziel
    · Total yards - 4920
    · Passing yards - 4154
    · Rushing yards - 766
    · Total touchdowns - 49
    · Passing touchdowns - 39
    · Rushing touchdowns - 10
    Jameis Winston
    · Total yards - 4180
    · Passing yards - 3984
    · Rushing yards - 197
    · Total touchdowns - 42
    · Passing touchdowns - 38
    · Rushing touchdowns - 4

    Although the difference between these numbers isn't quite as drastic as the actual stats, there is still a significant difference in how much better Johnny's stats are than Winston's. This should help put the argument to rest that Johnny's stats only appear to be better due to more playing time. Unfortunately, if any of your annoying Baylor friends try to make this argument, you'll just have to point out they still play in the Big 12.

  3. #28
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    John the football.

    He is the best player in college football. He may be the best player ever in college football.
    No other player I have seen can do what this distasteful person has done. He is the best.

    cant wait to see how he handles the pros. He has been fun to watch in college.

  4. #29
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    John the football.

    He is the best player in college football. He may be the best player ever in college football.
    No other player I have seen can do what this distasteful person has done. He is the best.

    cant wait to see how he handles the pros. He has been fun to watch in college.
    No

  5. #30
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    He may be the best player ever in college football.
    ...he's not even the best QB ever, much less the best player.

  6. #31
    The GodFather Vito Corleone's Avatar
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    John the football.

    He is the best player in college football. He may be the best player ever in college football.
    No other player I have seen can do what this distasteful person has done. He is the best.

    cant wait to see how he handles the pros. He has been fun to watch in college.
    He is a great player, and I agree he is the best player in college football right now, but RGIII, Vince Young, Michael Vick, and Tommie Frazier were all more dominate. Then you look at guys that play other positions like Ricky Williams, Bo Jackson, Reggie Bush, Ndamukong Suh, Cornelius Bennett, Deon Saunders, and the best defensive player I ever witnessed was Leroy Selmon.

    IMO the greatest college player I ever witnessed was Barry Saunders.

    Now I have no problem mentioning Manziel with those guys, he is in their class, but he isn't the head of that class.

  7. #32
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    He may be the best player ever in college football.

  8. #33
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    ...he's not even the best QB ever, much less the best player.
    Truth bombs, tbh.... at the college level, I'd have trouble ranking Johnny Inbred over the majority of guys like Vince, Frazier, Tebow, Flutie, Newton, Vick, Crouch, Staubach, Kellen Moore, Elway, Luck, RG3, etc....

  9. #34
    The GodFather Vito Corleone's Avatar
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    I'd rank Manziel above Ty Dietmer, Colt McCoy based on his ability to stay healthy with some of the shots he has taken. I love Colt and think as a college QB he was one of the best, but he couldn't take a hit. Manziel can. He is as good a QB as RGIII and Vick in his ability to throw, but not nearly as fast. He slightly below Vince and Frazier when it comes to dominance but not quite as good.

    He is no where near the passer as Elway, Payton Manning or even Luck. He is head and shoulders better than guys like Andre Ware, Matthew Stafford, Tim Tiebow, and Matt Leinart.

    I have said this before, but he reminds me of Joe Montana, in size, elusiveness, and passing ability. Time will tell if he is like Joe on the NFL level, but he sure looks the part on the college level.

  10. #35
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    I have said this before, but he reminds me of Joe Montana, in size, elusiveness, and passing ability. Time will tell if he is like Joe on the NFL level, but he sure looks the part on the college level.
    is this a joke?

    Manziel is average at best as a pocket passer at the college level.

  11. #36
    Veteran Sisk's Avatar
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    Manziel > RGIII

  12. #37
    Veteran Sisk's Avatar
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    Easily

  13. #38
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    Manziel is a great passer. People who say otherwise are just showing they don't watch the games. Especially those saying his first instinct is to bail out of the pocket. Couldn't be further from the truth, A&M fans have been begging him to run the ball more this season because it's so effective but he much rather stay in and make a throw.l

    Manziell's biggest weakness (and pretty much only one) is decision making, which is obviously correctable.

  14. #39
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Winston has him in the most important category of all. The loss column.
    it's the losses vs Alabama and Auburn.

    Last year the win over Bama was what got him the trophy.

  15. #40
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    If Manziel plays well and wins this weekend it could definitely make the race interesting. Right now it's Winston's to lose (Assuming they win out and he doesn't get charged with a felony)

  16. #41
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Manziel is a great passer. People who say otherwise are just showing they don't watch the games. Especially those saying his first instinct is to bail out of the pocket. Couldn't be further from the truth, A&M fans have been begging him to run the ball more this season because it's so effective but he much rather stay in and make a throw.l

    Manziell's biggest weakness (and pretty much only one) is decision making, which is obviously correctable.
    decision making is arguably the most important aspect to being a pocket passer

    and his decision making is quite poor actually, only he gets bailed out by a monster receiver most of the time

    0% chance he will be anything special in the NFL

  17. #42
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    Great take. Thanks for contributing.

  18. #43
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Truth bombs, tbh.... at the college level, I'd have trouble ranking Johnny Inbred over the majority of guys like Vince, Frazier, Tebow, Flutie, Newton, Vick, Crouch, Staubach, Kellen Moore, Elway, Luck, RG3, etc....
    No Fckn way.

    Staubach. So you watched him? In college? Give me a break. Texas beat Roger 28-0. Manziel in college is a better combination runner/passer than any of the above including Vince. No way does Vince locate a target like JF after buying time. Just no way. RG3 is the only guy I would consider.

    As far as the mentioning of Barry Sanders... He was a better pro than a college player imo. I know he had some gaudy stats, but he made tacklers look worse in the pros.

  19. #44
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    No Fckn way.

    Staubach. So you watched him? In college? Give me a break. Texas beat Roger 28-0. Manziel in college is a better combination runner/passer than any of the above including Vince. No way does Vince locate a target like JF after buying time. Just no way. RG3 is the only guy I would consider.

    As far as the mentioning of Barry Sanders... He was a better pro than a college player imo. I know he had some gaudy stats, but he made tacklers look worse in the pros.
    all Manziel does is run around in the backfield like a chicken with its head cut off and throws up prayers to his receivers. Vince dominated complete games.

  20. #45
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    all Manziel does is run around in the backfield like a chicken with its head cut off and throws up prayers to his receivers. Vince dominated complete games.
    He runs around and finds open guys. It works well in their offense in college. Chickens are very difficult to catch btw. So he is a focused chicken. How he does in the pros is a diff. beast.

    We got Aggie haters who refuse to see such a resourceful player.

  21. #46
    Five. DesignatedT's Avatar
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    We got Aggie haters who refuse to see such a resourceful player.
    That's all it is.

  22. #47
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    No Fckn way.

    Staubach. So you watched him? In college? Give me a break. Texas beat Roger 28-0. Manziel in college is a better combination runner/passer than any of the above including Vince. No way does Vince locate a target like JF after buying time. Just no way. RG3 is the only guy I would consider.

    As far as the mentioning of Barry Sanders... He was a better pro than a college player imo. I know he had some gaudy stats, but he made tacklers look worse in the pros.
    As a Longhorns fan, you seem to be forgetting just how good Vince was in that championship season. I would say that Manziel is likely the more accurate passer, but Vince was a better open field runner and college player overall. Running the table with no let downs then beating one of the best college teams even on what is basically their home field is the stuff of legend.

    Manziel is a very good player though and definitely one of the best to ever do it at the college level.

  23. #48
    Veteran Sisk's Avatar
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    As a Longhorns fan, you seem to be forgetting just how good Vince was in that championship season. I would say that Manziel is likely the more accurate passer, but Vince was a better open field runner and college player overall. Running the table with no let downs then beating one of the best college teams even on what is basically their home field is the stuff of legend.

    Manziel is a very good player though and definitely one of the best to ever do it at the college level.
    Did we lose either game because of Manziel?

  24. #49
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    all Manziel does is run around in the backfield like a chicken with its head cut off and throws up prayers to his receivers. Vince dominated complete games.
    this. VY was a much more patient and composed passer than JFF is. Vince always looked completely in control of his games and his team. Johnny is a master at creating plays out of nothing, about as good as you will ever see, but he doesn't seem nearly as controlled as Vince was. If you replace Vince with Johnny, Texas gets completely raped by USC in 2005.

  25. #50
    The GodFather Vito Corleone's Avatar
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    No Fckn way.

    Staubach. So you watched him? In college? Give me a break. Texas beat Roger 28-0. Manziel in college is a better combination runner/passer than any of the above including Vince. No way does Vince locate a target like JF after buying time. Just no way. RG3 is the only guy I would consider.

    As far as the mentioning of Barry Sanders... He was a better pro than a college player imo. I know he had some gaudy stats, but he made tacklers look worse in the pros.
    Post less you will look smarter.

    I watched almost every game Barry played in in 1989, I've never seen a runningback do anything close to what Barry did, take that back, the one guy who looked that good was a high school kid named Johnny Bailey when he played for Jack Yates in the mid-80's. Barry made everyone he played against look like children.

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