How many les would we have won without Manu?

[Skull-1]

I disagree pretty strongly. Last year was the first playoffs I've seen where Manu's presence was a net negative on the court.

Citing the gamewinner against GS doesn't erase the terrible shot he took less than 30 seconds before, which made the gamewinner necessary in the first place.

He didn't significantly contribute in a positive manner except for 1 game against Miami and and 1 shot against Golden State.

The Spurs make the finals with or without Manu. That said, they also lose the finals with or without him as well. Miami was just, ultimately, too good. Too many clutch shooters. Too much Lebron James. Too much wealth of talent. Manu's turnovers were costly, but it was Miami who reached out and grabbed those games.

[xmas1997]

03 MAYBE NOT, not just Jax with a barrage of threes and big shots, Manu was there throughout that run with some big shots and steals etc. IN 03 Manu can through in key moments in those playoffs, look at the DVD again or box scores, Manu had a barrage of threes with Jax in some games and just key moments like NJ game three where he hit a HUGE SHOT TO CLINCH the game! I remember game 6 Dallas too, his layup earlier in the 4th and his three in that Q sparked a run too! He was made slept on in 03 but he came through as a winner since day one.

[look_at_g_shred]

03 MAYBE NOT, not just Jax with a barrage of threes and big shots, Manu was there throughout that run with some big shots and steals etc. IN 03 Manu can through in key moments in those playoffs, look at the DVD again or box scores, Manu had a barrage of threes with Jax in some games and just key moments like NJ game three where he hit a HUGE SHOT TO CLINCH the game! I remember game 6 Dallas too, his layup earlier in the 4th and his three in that Q sparked a run too! He was made slept on in 03 but he came through as a winner since day one.

Good point man!

[Darius Bieber]

I say we would have won 3. 1999, 2007 and 2013. 2003 is perhaps a maybe, but the entire Spurs team won 2005. If we take any Spurs player out (whether it be Bruce, Barry, Horry, Manu, etc...) the Spurs would have lost. It was one of a series.

The 2013 Finals wasn't all on Manu. Sure, he had plenty of turnovers but the Spurs, as a team, failed to clinch the last 26 seconds. One rebound away from a Ring meant anyone on the team. I recall Boris had an opportunity to rebound the ball after a James missed three and before Allen made his. Even if Boris just knocked the ball away to the other end of the court, Spurs win Game 6.

[Leetonidas]

Impossible to tell. Who would be playing in his place?

[monkeypunk]

Because the 14M cap space would not have bring a better player than 13' Manu ?

With a 10-15M player instead of Manu in 09', maybe 12' and for sure 13' we would have had a better chance at winning it all

I disagree pretty strongly. Last year was the first playoffs I've seen where Manu's presence was a net negative on the court.

Citing the gamewinner against GS doesn't erase the terrible shot he took less than 30 seconds before, which made the gamewinner necessary in the first place.

He didn't significantly contribute in a positive manner except for 1 game against Miami and and 1 shot against Golden State.

The Spurs make the finals with or without Manu. That said, they also lose the finals with or without him as well. Miami was just, ultimately, too good. Too many clutch shooters. Too much Lebron James. Too much wealth of talent. Manu's turnovers were costly, but it was Miami who reached out and grabbed those games.

if you think that we get the seeding we got last year without Manu, you're kidding yourselves. Over the course of a season (which is what you have to consider) he is a net positive.

It's easy to cite one series or one game as bad but you have to look at the big picture. We may have been able to get a 12 to 15 million player but the odds of him gelling with the team like Manu has aren't that great. And nearly impossible to duplicate the spark / aggressiveness that Manu brings.

You could say that Duncan cost us the ring by not hitting the bunnies at the end of game 7. Or for Kawhi missing free throws. Or Neal and Green for not hitting their 3s in 6 and 7. Or Splitter for letting Bosh get the rebound that led to the Allen 3 at the end of game 6.

Easy to point fingers based on one game but you have to consider the season as a whole.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot.

[Skull-1]

It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot.

Which will be the last time we see that from him when it counts. From the Finals 2013 forward his TURNOVER/MISSED FT/BAD SHOT will double down on his previous BAD SHOT.

[superbigtime]

Would've won 3 without him including 2013.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Which will be the last time we see that from him when it counts. From the Finals 2013 forward his TURNOVER/MISSED FT/BAD SHOT will double down on his previous BAD SHOT.

You are wrong. And you will be proven wrong. I guarantee you Ginobili hits at least 1-2 game winners this year. And I'll bump this post each time it does.

But this thread has run it's course. 80% of this forum knows what they're talking about, and 1/4 of them think you're a dumbass. Maybe you should take a hint. Even if you don't, it doesn't matter it's pretty damn funny now. After your post at the top, I no longer take you serious. Perhaps there's a reason not even TGY defends you anymore.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Would've won 3 without him including 2013.

You trust Cory Joseph to take over the ball handling and you trust someone else to show up in game five and account for 24 points and 10 assists? You trust someone else to be a leader to the team and you trust someone else to run the bench? - A lot of optimism in my opinion.

[xmas1997]

if you think that we get the seeding we got last year without Manu, you're kidding yourselves. Over the course of a season (which is what you have to consider) he is a net positive.

It's easy to cite one series or one game as bad but you have to look at the big picture. We may have been able to get a 12 to 15 million player but the odds of him gelling with the team like Manu has aren't that great. And nearly impossible to duplicate the spark / aggressiveness that Manu brings.

You could say that Duncan cost us the ring by not hitting the bunnies at the end of game 7. Or for Kawhi missing free throws. Or Neal and Green for not hitting their 3s in 6 and 7. Or Splitter for letting Bosh get the rebound that led to the Allen 3 at the end of game 6.

Easy to point fingers based on one game but you have to consider the season as a whole.

It's pretty simple to me. Towards the end of the year, when we were on that huge losing streak, it was due to Manu and Diaw not being able to play, thus making our bench HORRIBLE.

I don't see how people can try to justify us even making it to the finals without Manu, especially after the Golden State and LA series. And for people that say "his made shot didn't mean anything because he shot a bad three 30 seconds previous - you are wrong. If he didn't make that shot, we'd be down 1-0 instead of up 1-0. That shot SAVED us and that shot DID make up for his bad shot.

I agree with both of you, and the truth is aptly reflected in the poll above!
Small minds cannot grasp any of this reasoning, that much has become obvious!
All they can do is hurl blind, unreasonable, and obsessive hatred at the one person they deem most responsible for the most mistakes.
But truth keeps coming out and smacking them in the face, yet they stubbornly refuse to accept the truth.
Thus it is not our or Manus' problem, it is the haters problem!

[superbigtime]

You trust Cory Joseph to take over the ball handling and you trust someone else to show up in game five and account for 24 points and 10 assists? You trust someone else to be a leader to the team and you trust someone else to run the bench? - A lot of optimism in my opinion.

I don't trust Cory Joseph to take out the trash.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I don't trust Cory Joseph to take out the trash.

Then how the do we win the finals without him?

[superbigtime]

Then how the do we win the finals without him?

You're right, spurs just wouldve won 99 and 03. Spurs had no consistent ball handler/creator after Tony, including Manu.

2013 Manu: can't win with him, can't win without him.

[Skull-1]

You are wrong. And you will be proven wrong. I guarantee you Ginobili hits at least 1-2 game winners this year. And I'll bump this post each time it does.

Bump all you like idiot. He will not win any playoff games that count. PLAYOFFS. I don't care about the Regular Season. Even Bonner can do that.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Bump all you like idiot. He will not win any playoff games that count. PLAYOFFS. I don't care about the Regular Season. Even Bonner can do that.

Who said anything about the season? - Just wait.

[Skull-1]

But this thread has run it's course. 80% of this forum knows what they're talking about, and 1/4 of them think you're a dumbass. Maybe you should take a hint. Even if you don't, it doesn't matter it's pretty damn funny now. After your post at the top, I no longer take you serious. Perhaps there's a reason not even TGY defends you anymore.

A flawed, leading, statistically insignificant poll among a bunch of braindead homers? PLEASE. Lemmings. I am glad I am in the minority because most of you on here are re ed.

[Skull-1]

Who said anything about the season? - Just wait.

Playoffs. Games that count. Not down 0-3 and lose the series. Manu won't do jack except lose another ring. BUMP AWAY!! BRING IT ON.

[McGusto55]

1...tbh

[dallasmaverickslose]

A flawed, leading, statistically insignificant poll among a bunch of braindead homers? PLEASE. Lemmings. I am glad I am in the minority because most of you on here are re ed.

Lmfao... Skull can't cope with the fact that he is a forum certified dumbass.

[Skull-1]

Lmfao... Skull can't cope with the fact that he is a forum certified dumbass.

I am a dumbass? Really? Winning 2-4 les over the last ten years without Manu is that big a stretch? (Again, 1999 and 2003 are already in the bag, so 2004-13, we win at least two and I am right, one which we woulda had in 2007... Sounds like you're the dumbass.)

[look_at_g_shred]

How about non-believers just stay the out this thread! No one obviously gives a about your opinions!!

[TXstbobcat]

This is a pointless arguement. The spurs have 4 more les than a lot of nba teams. Fans should just move on from last year and enjoy the last few years of what has been a fun couple of decades of spurs basketball.

[monkeypunk]

How about non-believers just stay the out this thread! No one obviously gives a about your opinions!!

I wish the Ellis'es had closed new registrations after the Finals so we didn't have all these gotdamn trolls in here now.