Wow, James Evans with the goods. Very high quality posts, sir. One of the greatest single game on court duels ever to play out was Nique vs Bird. Athlete vs non- athlete, yet highly compe ive, and truly spectacular. And let us not forget, our favorite power forward came into this league lacking much of the athletics of his peers, yet continuously bested them all. Back to my original point though, these new guys got nothin on them old guys.
Last edited by Blue Duck; 11-22-2013 at 04:18 AM.
Lets compare and contrast. Ill name a star of the 80's and then one from a player that played in another ten year span that would end today ('03 to '13) and lets see where we stand.
'80-'90 - '03-'13
Jordan - Duncan
Bird - Kobe
Magic - Lebron
Kareem - Shaq
Hakeem - Garnett
Barkley - Nowitzki
Moses
Dr J
I Thomas
K Malone
Stockton
I could add Parker, Ginobili for today's bunch or maybe Pierce but could also add players like Nique and Drexler and others back then.
But I think my list shows that there were alot more memorable players back in the 80's than today.
Look. Blue duck brought up the athletes argument. You can't counter my argument without invalidating his. So unless you're going to read the post I was responding to, don't bother.
So why are you bringing them up? Duck said there were better athletes in the 80s and 90s. I was countering his point. Not saying that better athletes = better players.There were too many athletic players in the 80s and 90s that aren't even discussed in nba circles. robert pack was never a superstar or top player but he was 6'2 and could jam that thing on anyone. darrel griffith. stacey augmon.. the list is endless. now i'm not saying these players were great, but having quickness and a 40 inch vertical leap doesn't mean you're a great player.
Right. Why do you think they IMPLEMENTED that rule? Because teams actually started to play defense. It started in the early 90s with the Pistons and progressed until the point where defenses were literally so good that we had the entire NBA averaging in the 80/90s for PPG. Maybe you remember that? Or do you think they changed the hand-checking rule for no reason at all?in the 80s, you could handcheck(can't do that now).
So let's clarify something here. Being an athlete doesn't make you a great player, but being able to hip check a player out of a game like a hockey player means you play basketball well? Mmkay. I was unaware that acting like a thug on a court means you are a more skilled player.u could hit a player when he drives in with the body hard(that's a game suspension now).
I already stated that the center position has regressed. Don't belabor point I've conceded.and u actually had CENTERS and power forwards that didn't shoot 3s for a living. back then, centers got dunked on, they didn't move out of the way because they were afraid to be on espn sportscenter.
Yeah, because his game is totally limited to dunks.how often does lebron james dunk on centers?
It's pointless to speculate on "who would beat who". I think in it's current state, if you injected a team from the 80s into the NBA they would get beat handily by most of the better teams in the league because of how much more the defense has evolved. The NBA is a more complete game now by a wide margin than it has been in the past. If this wasn't the case, teams would not be running highly complicated offenses.in the east u had the bucks(a very good team), celtics, pistons, and sixers. nique didn't have that much help on the hawks. in the west u had houston(before sampson's injuries took over), utah, lakers, portland(hit their stride in the late 80s), and the mavs. u really think the thunder would destroy the mavs of the 80s?
Modern NBA guard oriented offenses would absolutely destroy defenses in the 80s. A team like the Spurs, Warriors, or Heat would lay waste to them. They would have easy buckets all over the court. If you want to apply the same rules, no center from the 80s would be able to stay in the game with their "hard nosed defense". Remember, teams COULD hand check in the 80s and still gave up 70 point halves with regularity.and what would any frontline in the current nba do with hakeem and sampson with no handchecking? ibaka and perkins would foul out in the first quarter. haslem and bosh wouldn't have a prayer to help them.
I think it's pretty humorous how you guys talk about how Jordan destroyed the NBA because he made it so much more star oriented and then in the very next breath you want to compare individuals to see which era had the better teams. Contradicting yourself quite nicely.
The 80's stars were popular because they earned it. After Jordan you have guys like Tracy McGrady, Vince Young, Carmelo, Wall, and a whole lot more who have come nowhere near a led but cant stop admiring themselves.
"The game was better in my day because I say so! These youngin's today didn't earn anything!"
Btw, it's hilarious that you used a "well they didn't win any les so they didn't earn anything"...
... In a "Barkley vs. Malone" thread.
It is funny how you forget Durant or Paul. I don't know how they compare with the ones you talk about. But for sure they will be remembered as "memorable". Just like Nash, Kidd, Wade and a couple of other players.
At Cry Havoc. Laughter's good, relish in it.
Last edited by skulls138; 11-23-2013 at 05:45 AM.
Between just Barkley and Malone? I would go with Malone. The only way I'd consider Barkley would be if I was playing fantasy basketball. Malone is bigger, more athletic, less likely to be a cancer in the locker room and in the media, and imo was at least as good if not better on the court anyway.
I agree with the comment about how Barkley would have been better had he also been able to play with Stockton, but that assumes Barkley wouldn't it up with his bad at ude which he was well known for. The charming, happy guy you see now is very different from how he acted when he was a player. Dude had a massively swelled head and let everyone know it.
Tim Duncan is clearly the #1 all time PF. Not only is he the best PF with a large amount of rings (it doesn't hurt his case much that the supposed top 4 besides him all have only 0-1 rings), but he has some advanced statistical records people don't know about. He's #2 all time in defensive rating (used to be #1 until he got older), with only an obscure name who didn't play long being at #1. He's also #2 all time in defensive win shares behind only Bill Russell. So it isn't just about the basic stats you see. Reading between the lines, Duncan's impact has been much greater than that of a loud, flashy stat stuffer like Barkley. He does the things people don't really pay attention to as well, which is why he "somehow" always wins, while dudes like Barkley and KG struggled to at times no matter how good they were or their team was.
Bird was a SF btw, but even if you were to put them in the same category, I have Duncan above Bird on my all time list anyway. Only by a spot or two though, not way up. Bird's in my top 10.
I don't know if I'm contradicting myself, but making such comparisons is what sports fans do. Why?? Cuz it's fun!!! So I'm going to play the game proposed by Mr. Skulls. For Moses Malone-D. Howard, J. Stockton-Steve Nash, Isaiah Thomas- Steph Curry. Although he didn't truly play in the 10 year span proposed by Skulls, i think the perfect counterpart to Isaiah would have been Allen Iverson. That duel would have been " must see" TV.
"Man Jordan just RUINED the NBA, he made everyone compare individual players to see who was better instead of focusing on the team."
"Hey look the 80s had better stars than modern day, watch I'll compare them."
Ok, ok Mr. Havoc. I concede. But like i said, the debate is just for fun. It's kinda like playing NBAY2K when you get to play the 92 dream team against the 2013 Heat, or the old school spurs vs the new spurs. Just interesting debate fodder for b-ball junkies, nothing more.
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