Lakers: Lakers Getting Ready To Rape The Knicks: Gasol For Tyson and Shumpert

[scanry]

actually thats exactly how the cap works

you can't just decide to go over the cap just cause and decide to pay luxury tax tbh. teams end up over the cap when they use bird rights to resign their own guys for more than they were originally making. example, lakers had kobe on peanuts on his rookie contract, then he got a huge payday. that put the lakers above the cap. they later drafted bynum, and rookie scale contract didnt hurt them. he then made north of 16 mil per year on his next contract. that put them further above the cap, etc. but you can't just sign free agents and pay luxury tax willy nilly.

odom is another guy that the lakers gave a payraise to, and they essentially traded his contract for Nash's current contract (Odom for trade exception, trade exception for Nash). gasol also got a bit of a raise from the lakers. then of course kobe's 3 year 80 million extension followed by his recent 2 year plan have put them in permanent cap

the time warner deal gets them like 100 mil a year, and their pockets are deeper than that. if it was just a matter of luxury tax, they would be able to throw the max and lebron and melo on top of kobe's contract

I'm aware of the cap which will probably be around $60 mil.

Don't the Lakers have Kobe's bird rights tbh? If i can crunch the numbers right, they'll have Kobe, another max player, Gasol if he signs for like $8 - 9 mil, and a MDE (6 to 9 mil) player. However i don't understand how Nash fits into the equation. Do they get some kind of an exemption to sign other players if they waive Nash?

[spurraider21]

I'm aware of the cap which will probably be around $60 mil.

Don't the Lakers have Kobe's bird rights tbh? If i can crunch the numbers right, they'll have Kobe, another max player, Gasol if he signs for like $8 - 9 mil, and a MDE (6 to 9 mil) player. However i don't understand how Nash fits into the equation. Do they get some kind of an exemption to sign other players if they waive Nash?

The Lakers owning Kobe bird rights have nothing to do with the cap since he is already under contract.

Lets break down your scenario. you say Kobe, another max player (lets call the max 20 mil per year for arguments sake), which has us at a number around 44 million. you say gasol signs for 8-9, lets be generous and call it 8, and so that has them up to 52 million. the lakers can keep nash and the full 9 million, or waive him using the stretch provision (stretching the cap hit to 3 years, so about 3 million per year over the next 3 years). if they waive nash, then the combination of Kobe, a max guy, Gasol (laughably assuming he signs for 8 million), and a waived Nash has the Lakers already at 55 million, for a roster of 3 guys, putting them 7 million under the cap with another, what, 12 roster spots to fill (each of which has a cap hold of the nba minimum salary).

a team's bird rights come into play when they are trying to resign a player, but resigning him would put them over the cap. for example, the Lakers held Dwight Howard's bird rights last summer. They were already over the cap, so if they didn't have bird rights and if Dwight was just a regular UFA, they wouldn't have been allowed to sign him. since they held his bird rights, they are allowed to sign him despite their cap situation (as long as they pay luxury tax, at that point). since Kobe is under contract, their bird rights dont really matter. they Lakers would have bird rights on Pau, sure. but even before they sign him, he will have a cap hold of about 20 million (based on his current salary). they either would have to sign him to a contract or waive his bird rights to make that 20 million cap hold go away.

the MLE you referred to (which is around 5-6 million dollars, it usually equates to average nba salary), is available for teams that are over the salary cap, but below the luxury tax apron. this allows teams that are over the cap to have some sense of flexibility to improve their roster. however, the lakers are going to be under the cap at seasons end, and so they won't have access to the MLE. for teams that are not only above the cap but also above the luxury tax apron, they get access to the mini MLE (how the Heat signed Ray Allen to his contract, how the Lakers signed Kaman this past summer).

but a team that starts out below the cap does not get access to the MLE

[LkrFan]

Dwight Howard tbh

Last year we were a joke defensively with Howard (and MWP). We gave up 101ppg. Let's compare that to this year's sorry ass Knicks team: 97.7ppg. Can't really differentiate the two teams offensively because they both run MDA's offense (pace).

Regardless of how you are trolling, if healthy (big if, I know) Daddy Tyson represents any upgrade defensively over MVPau and it's not even close. His defensive impact >>> MVPau's offensive repertoire. If healthy (reports are that he was evaluated a few days ago). Daddy would be an upgrade for the Lake Show.

LINK

[spurraider21]

Last year we were a joke defensively with Howard (and MWP). We gave up 101ppg. Let's compare that to this year's sorry ass Knicks team: 97.7ppg. Can't really differentiate the two teams offensively because they both run MDA's offense.

Regardless of how you are trolling, if healthy (big if, I know) Daddy Tyson represents any upgrade defensively over MVPau and it's not even close. His defensive impact >>> MVPau's offensive repertoire. If healthy (reports are that he was evaluated a few days ago). Daddy would be an upgrade for the Lake Show.

LINK

I'm aware that Chandler is a better defender than Gasol , you don't have to convince me of that

but to say Chandler is a better anchor than Dwight was is crazy. the lakers defense sucked because they were trotting out nash and blake at PG all year, and Kobe's defensive effort was far and away the worst of his career. MWP tried, and had those moments where he would go ape and bully a in the corner and forcing a turnover, but largely was just too slow. the lakers transition D was their big weakness. and pau has lost pretty much all lateral agility defensively, so it was essentially howard vs the world. the problem was, since the Lakers and D'Antoni had no concept of team D, every time howard rotated to contest a shot, his man would get a free dunk

also, chandler has played in 4 games this year so don't use the knicks defensive figures as evidence that chandler will improve you drastically

[Rogue]

Lakers ain't gonna need TC as long as M_A is the coach, just give TC to us in exchange of Marion (expiring contract) and whatever filler you wanna take, please do it Mitch

[whitemamba]

fine. lets assume they waive Nash with the stretch provision, meaning his cap hit is something like 3 million next year.

You'd have:

Kobe - 24 million
Chandler - 14.5 million
Nash - 3 million
JR Smith - 6 million (smith is a requisite for the trade to occur)
Shumpert - 2.6 million

these 5 players bring us to a total of 50.1 million

assuming the cap goes up to 62 or 63 million to be very generous, you have about 10 million to spend on Melo (cap holds on other roster spots)... and since he's opting out of 23 million, good luck with that.

if nash is sent as part of the trade as AchillesHeel suggested, lets shave 3 mill of that total, so you have 47 mil spent on 4 roster spots. you can't afford melo anyway

prematurely ejaculating gots

damn this guys mad...

[AchillesHeel]

fine. lets assume they waive Nash with the stretch provision, meaning his cap hit is something like 3 million next year.

You'd have:

Kobe - 24 million
Chandler - 14.5 million
Nash - 3 million
JR Smith - 6 million (smith is a requisite for the trade to occur)
Shumpert - 2.6 million

these 5 players bring us to a total of 50.1 million

assuming the cap goes up to 62 or 63 million to be very generous, you have about 10 million to spend on Melo (cap holds on other roster spots)... and since he's opting out of 23 million, good luck with that.

if nash is sent as part of the trade as AchillesHeel suggested, lets shave 3 mill of that total, so you have 47 mil spent on 4 roster spots. you can't afford melo anyway

prematurely ejaculating gots

Wow Lakers

Kirby ed them good

[Killakobe81]

Meh ... Could not care less.
i want Jabari Parker.
We should be in tank mode.

[Thread]

^Killa, it's pie-in-the-sky....I heard or read a report Friday that none of these hotshots are going to be NBA impact players upon arrival. Maybe someday, but, there are no MJ's in there.

[DPG21920]

Shut up^

[DMC]

Meh ... Could not care less.
i want Jabari Parker.
We should be in tank mode.

You mean you aren't?

[DMC]

Last year we were a joke defensively with Howard (and MWP). We gave up 101ppg. Let's compare that to this year's sorry ass Knicks team: 97.7ppg. Can't really differentiate the two teams offensively because they both run MDA's offense (pace).

Regardless of how you are trolling, if healthy (big if, I know) Daddy Tyson represents any upgrade defensively over MVPau and it's not even close. His defensive impact >>> MVPau's offensive repertoire. If healthy (reports are that he was evaluated a few days ago). Daddy would be an upgrade for the Lake Show.

LINK

TC played only 4 games so far. You cannot use the Knicks points allowed to show his efficiency.

[Thread]

TC played only 4 games so far. You cannot use the Knicks points allowed to show his efficiency.

Only pussies & assholes use the injury card.

[Killakobe81]

You mean you aren't?

not if we trading for Tyson, shumpert etc ...

Just play this season out. No team could be expected to contend with no healthy PG's on the roster and playing a mid 30's SG at PG, who is coming off a blown achilles.
Tank. Not deliberately try to lose but it's time to rebuild ...
Kobe, Mitch, some Laker fans are delusional ...

Even the lakers have to rebuild sometime ...

[Killakobe81]

^Killa, it's pie-in-the-sky....I heard or read a report Friday that none of these hotshots are going to be NBA impact players upon arrival. Maybe someday, but, there are no MJ's in there.

You are right. I dont see a MJ, Kobe, Lebron or even a durant.
But even if the pick is used to trade for something else it has more value than another first round loss ...
Parker, Gordon, Randle all could be traded for something we need (PG, C, PF)

[Thread]

^We have one of about 5 last of the Mohicans. We'll patchwork it around him. There is no other way. Blame is for small children and God but the blame here rests entirely with Cuban. He targeted us upon arrival and never stopped until he'd done us dirt, damnable dirt. He basically went "door-to-door" and explaiined what we'd been up to for 25 years. The old guard hadn't given a (the old man may have even paid them off thru the years), but, the new breed listened and then signed Cuban's "pe ion." If that er had never been born we'd still be ridin' high & wide.

[Killakobe81]

^We have one of about 5 last of the Mohicans. We'll patchwork it around him. There is no other way. Blame is for small children and God but the blame here rests entirely with Cuban. He targeted us upon arrival and never stopped until he'd done us dirt, damnable dirt. He basically went "door-to-door" and explaiined what we'd been up to for 25 years. The old guard hadn't given a (the old man may have even paid them off thru the years), but, the new breed listened and then signed Cuban's "pe ion." If that er had never been born we'd still be ridin' high & wide.

Some truth is there. And despite it all, I believe we will get back eventually ... but we cant follow the Cowboys way of resting on old les and our "brand" we need to make smart moves and signings ...
And tbh, Dwight did save us by walking no way he is worth it in years 4 and 5 of that deal. Those botching about Kobe would have a field day when we are paying that rate for a bad back, missed FT's and theball being stripped 50% of the time down low ...

Lakers should not look at a magic Melo deal either ... just be patient. Ride out the Kobe deal and hoard cap space until a legit star becomes available ... most of these cats arent better than a broken down Kobe, tbh ...

[Stephen A. Smith]

My sources tell me that the Lakers are absolutely willing to take on JR Smith's contract to make this deal happen. Mike D'Antoni likes Smith's aggressive "score first" style while Fredo and Mitch believe he can actually help them improve their cap situation in a role as Kirby's chauffeur.

[Koolaid_Man]

Some truth is there. And despite it all, I believe we will get back eventually ... but we cant follow the Cowboys way of resting on old les and our "brand" we need to make smart moves and signings ...
And tbh, Dwight did save us by walking no way he is worth it in years 4 and 5 of that deal. Those botching about Kobe would have a field day when we are paying that rate for a bad back, missed FT's and theball being stripped 50% of the time down low ...

Lakers should not look at a magic Melo deal either ... just be patient. Ride out the Kobe deal and hoard cap space until a legit star becomes available ... most of these cats arent better than a broken down Kobe, tbh ...

you guys still don't get it....this is NOT about the future....it's about the here and NOW...it's about winning #6 with Kobe....we go all in..we make bad decisions who gives a ...sign Melo, sign whoever....after two yrs nothing will matter anyway....there's no one in the pipeline....players are staying with their respective teams so you do what you can to win NOW....how many got dam times do I have to say this .... the future...it's time to get it NOW gotdamit...what don't you cats understand...so Melo is bad signing who gives a there's nothing else out there...it's all about Kobe's last 2 yrs and you do whatever you can to make it happen whether it happens or not....

it's all monopoly money anyway...I don't give a about cap space and taxes..we ain't winning after Kobe is gone anyways....

[RsxPiimp]

The Lakers owning Kobe bird rights have nothing to do with the cap since he is already under contract.

Lets break down your scenario. you say Kobe, another max player (lets call the max 20 mil per year for arguments sake), which has us at a number around 44 million. you say gasol signs for 8-9, lets be generous and call it 8, and so that has them up to 52 million. the lakers can keep nash and the full 9 million, or waive him using the stretch provision (stretching the cap hit to 3 years, so about 3 million per year over the next 3 years). if they waive nash, then the combination of Kobe, a max guy, Gasol (laughably assuming he signs for 8 million), and a waived Nash has the Lakers already at 55 million, for a roster of 3 guys, putting them 7 million under the cap with another, what, 12 roster spots to fill (each of which has a cap hold of the nba minimum salary).

a team's bird rights come into play when they are trying to resign a player, but resigning him would put them over the cap. for example, the Lakers held Dwight Howard's bird rights last summer. They were already over the cap, so if they didn't have bird rights and if Dwight was just a regular UFA, they wouldn't have been allowed to sign him. since they held his bird rights, they are allowed to sign him despite their cap situation (as long as they pay luxury tax, at that point). since Kobe is under contract, their bird rights dont really matter. they Lakers would have bird rights on Pau, sure. but even before they sign him, he will have a cap hold of about 20 million (based on his current salary). they either would have to sign him to a contract or waive his bird rights to make that 20 million cap hold go away.

the MLE you referred to (which is around 5-6 million dollars, it usually equates to average nba salary), is available for teams that are over the salary cap, but below the luxury tax apron. this allows teams that are over the cap to have some sense of flexibility to improve their roster. however, the lakers are going to be under the cap at seasons end, and so they won't have access to the MLE. for teams that are not only above the cap but also above the luxury tax apron, they get access to the mini MLE (how the Heat signed Ray Allen to his contract, how the Lakers signed Kaman this past summer).

but a team that starts out below the cap does not get access to the MLE

Stop it, just stop.

[RsxPiimp]

where did i get exposed?

enlighten me

You were throwing out crazy numbers maxing the cap out playing arm chair GM?

[Thread]

you guys still don't get it....this is NOT about the future....it's about the here and NOW...it's about winning #6 with Kobe....we go all in..we make bad decisions who gives a ...sign Melo, sign whoever....after two yrs nothing will matter anyway....there's no one in the pipeline....players are staying with their respective teams so you do what you can to win NOW....how many got dam times do I have to say this .... the future...it's time to get it NOW gotdamit...what don't you cats understand...so Melo is bad signing who gives a there's nothing else out there...it's all about Kobe's last 2 yrs and you do whatever you can to make it happen whether it happens or not

Kool Aid Man

[Killakobe81]

you guys still don't get it....this is NOT about the future....it's about the here and NOW...it's about winning #6 with Kobe....we go all in..we make bad decisions who gives a ...sign Melo, sign whoever....after two yrs nothing will matter anyway....there's no one in the pipeline....players are staying with their respective teams so you do what you can to win NOW....how many got dam times do I have to say this .... the future...it's time to get it NOW gotdamit...what don't you cats understand...so Melo is bad signing who gives a there's nothing else out there...it's all about Kobe's last 2 yrs and you do whatever you can to make it happen whether it happens or not....

it's all monopoly money anyway...I don't give a about cap space and taxes..we ain't winning after Kobe is gone anyways....

I dont care about Fredo's money either, he has money to burn. But because no legit stars are leaving teams right now it is important to protect cap space and draft smart. Dont get me wrong, if we can trade our pick for a legit star for sure I would do it. But where we differ s on focusing on Kobe getting 6 when I am focusing on "17" Lakers have won before Kobe and someday they will win a chip after Kobe. I would love for him to get 6 but if we could get 2 or 3 in the next 10 years I would rather have that then Kobe get his 6.
Lakers always come first even Kobe is not bigger than my squad. I would trade him (I would hate it, but would pull trigger) if it netted us a Durant or Lebron in return.

[Koolaid_Man]

I dont care about Fredo's money either, he has money to burn. But because no legit stars are leaving teams right now it is important to protect cap space and draft smart. Dont get me wrong, if we can trade our pick for a legit star for sure I would do it. But where we differ s on focusing on Kobe getting 6 when I am focusing on "17" Lakers have won before Kobe and someday they will win a chip after Kobe. I would love for him to get 6 but if we could get 2 or 3 in the next 10 years I would rather have that then Kobe get his 6.
Lakers always come first even Kobe is not bigger than my squad. I would trade him (I would hate it, but would pull trigger) if it netted us a Durant or Lebron in return.

you're a got dam turn coat bas ....would you trade Magic after 5 rings for MJ....you got a lot to learn about life

[Thread]

^Kool is right, Killa. It can't be like it was. That's why they secured Kobe. It really wasn't even a debate upon examination. Who else you going to get? & Kool is right about Melo. He's standing there by himself. That's it.