Reply With Quote
Spurs do need a real bench center who can rebound and block/ alter shots but I wouldnt worry about OKC, they are peaking way too early.
This shows what's wrong with the mentality of most Spurs fans. Duncan is an elite shot-blocker. A huge problem with the defense is that he struggles in all other aspects of help defense. That was fine when Green and Leonard were in front of him, because Duncan's feeble attempts to help were enough for them to get back in the play, but Beli and the others need a big with Splitter's mobility (at least) to help them.
Duncan is a smarter, slower Ibaka. He can anchor a defense only if he's protected before the shot. He needs a dominant PnR defender next to him and his wings back. It would also help if he could move back outside and stop wrecking the offense so that Splitter, Green and Leonard could do more on that end as well.
Spurs do need a real bench center who can rebound and block/ alter shots but I wouldnt worry about OKC, they are peaking way too early.
So then he's not like ibaka. Serge can knock down that hump shot, can hit a corner 3, not great in the post. But he plays next to perk and Collison so he's able to just anchor defense no matter who's next to him. He can come across the weak side to block shots and he can alter shots. Duncan is a good defender but he's not Serge elite anymore.
Duncan is elite because a lot of defenders blow by our perimeter guys and Duncan steps up to meet them at the point of the shot
I said a smarter, slower Ibaka. Duncan is still a better post defender and rebounder due to being smart. But Ibaka's quickness allows him to defend farther away from the basket.
Anyway, no. Duncan is able to step up because Leonard and Green funnel players to him. So he barely has to move when those two are in front of him. When I say protect I don't mean that. I mean they get back to their men on the PnR more quickly than usual and he's able to return to his spot without having to defend the ball. Essentially, his hedge is below average (and worse on some days) but that's all the New Two need for the most part. They (and Splitter) let Duncan focus on doing what he's best at.
Strange how no one here seems to realize that we have the #6 shotblocker in the league, Tim Duncan, who is ahead of Dwight Howard in blocks this season.
Pining away for some kid who can leap like a deer to block shots but can't do much of anything else is ignorant since even a good shot blocker is only going to do his thing a couple of times a game. Might be exciting to see someone swat one into the stands, but it isn't very useful since the other team gets another offensive play.
I suppose this is the FOs reason to stand pat and go after Jeff Ayres and stick with Bonner for so long.
Lol strawman.
I think we all agree the team could use an awesome four to rotate with Duncan, Splitter and Diaw. But by no means is shot-blocking the missing piece of the defense. If Ayres had played as advertised, the big rotation would be really strong. If there is an upgrade needed as a pure big, it would be for a better offensively player who isn't a complete stiff on D.
How was Ayres advertised? And who advertised it, they should be banned from ever advertising.
Spurs have holes that they wait 2 or 3 seasons to address. I remember when there was a lack of "bigs" now we are top heavy but they're not that great. Pop has been willing to take on projects in hopes they can develop some basketball skill on the premise that Duncan can cover up there ty play.
Why would you want to funnel the ball closer to the basket so he can do a tear drop over any 7 footer.
Danny and Leonard are out there to stop the progress toward the basket. Keep them out of the
lanes and make them take lower % 18 ft shots. You need to keep young point type of players away
from the basket. They are too quick for all the big men...
.
NBA Stats... Defensive Impact: Statistics measuring the impact a player has on defense, including blocks, steals and protecting the rim, which measures the opponent's field goal percentage at the rim while it is being defended. Rim protection is defined as the defender being within five feet of the basket and within five feet of the offensive player attempting the shot.
Ibaka is League rated 2nd and has 2.5 blocks per game at 32 min and Timmy is rated 5th in the League and has 2.0 blocks per game
at 29min .... It's a wash with Tim playing 3 less games.
Ibaka is making $12mill this year with Tim making $10 mill......
Why spend $2mill more for the same.......
Duncan's rejections come from baseline help. Green and Leonard funnel their guards to the baseline, but they don't always stop them completely. Instead of giving their guards a direct path to the basket, they push them to the side where it's a lot harder to get passed them and Duncan. This leaves Tim in the position of just having to reach over and block the shot. When Beli et al get beat, it's usually on middle penetration, which is significantly harder for bigs to cover, as there's more room and thus uncertainty. The PnR is a different animal entirely.
Now, if you're saying Ibaka and Duncan have similar impacts I sort of agree. However, Ibaka's weaknesses are much easier to cover than Duncan's are. Without elite perimeter defenders in front of him, Duncan would struggle more than Ibaka would.
Last edited by Chinook; 01-31-2014 at 10:35 PM.
He was advertised as a mobile big with hops and range. His inability to hit from outside completely breaks him playing next to Duncan or Splitter. There aren't many bigs out there that were available for half the MLE who can fill that role. Their first target was reported to be Dante Cunningham from the Wolves, but they decided to unexpectedly pick up his option. After him, Ayres was about the best they could do once they decided to keep Bonner and sign Beli over Neal.
OKC is rated 3rd in league defense --Spurs are rated at 5th. Do you think it's all Ibaka that makes all the difference? Have you noticed
that OKC has good players ......I could say they make Ibaka look better. Did you see the block stats for this year?
I don't thing we will agree on this so I agree to disagree with you............
Last edited by Biernutz; 01-31-2014 at 11:17 PM.
Lol. I'm not a Duncan hater. And it's a foolish take to assume that of me. Tim's past needs no defense or explanation. Every Spurs fan owes him respect for that.
We're talking about his present here. I'm saying that right now he's as good on an overall defender as Ibaka but that Ibaka's weaknesses are easier to cover up. Tim's an excellent shot-blocker, but his lack of mobility is a grave issue because he can no longer supply sufficient help. Green and Leonard are good enough not to need as much help, so all Duncan has to worry about is getting to his spot and challenging the shot.
When he needs to get out and guard an actual broken coverage, he can't do it. It's like if Duncan were a safety in football. He can play is zone at an elite level, but he can't handle a receiver coming at him in the open field after shaking his man.
Duncan's a role-player on defense when he used to be a star. That's a fact, not an insult. Ibaka is as well. But Duncan needs elite players in front of him (and one next to him) to fill his role. Ibaka doesn't need that due to his freelancing, which is his biggest strength but also a vulnerability good teams can exploit.
how is Chinook hating on Duncan, tbh?..
Everything he said is accurate, we've discussed this issue in several threads, tbh..
Duncan is still statistically one of the best interior defenders in the league..not only is he in the top 5-6 in blocked shots, but he also ranks in the top 10 of opposing FG% at the rim among players with a similar sample size..the problem is that he's old and too slow to cover the pick&roll/recover outside, thus needing Splitter's mobility + the great perimeter pairing of Leonard/Green around him..that's fine, it worked last season, obviously..
Ibaka's weakness on defense is post D, he isn't a strong post defender, but individual post defense is less important in today's NBA, tbh(as Miami has shown)..
OKC has many good defensive players around Ibaka, I don't think anybody would deny that..
The Spurs' defense wouldn't be a problem if Pop went with last year's lineup IMO..the problem is the offense, due to Duncan playing more on the interior this season, because of the lack of confidence in his jump shot + Kawhi's 3-point shot has been broken..it has killed the offense and forced Pop to look for alternatives, which in turn, has harmed the defense..
I fully expect Pop to go back to the Green/Leonard/Splitter lineup in the playoffs, with the possibility of less Splitter, though..
it would help but i think that is not the problem, simply our wings are terrible defenders and that's all it is. Things will get a lot better with everyone healthy.
indeed. What people still fail to understand is that Duncan at this point is a true center and should have the defensive assignments of a center not a pf. You don't make Asik or Howard run away from the rim to make him guard the perimeter, so why should be duncan forced to do so?
agree again, in fairness though Duncan's defensive rating is really ty (102.2 same as belinelli) and it just further proves how even one cancerous player can affect a whole system D and flush it down the toilet.
Everything he said is accurate, we've discussed this issue in several threads, tbh..
Duncan is still statistically one of the best interior defenders in the league..not only is he in the top 5-6 in blocked shots, but he also ranks in the top 10 of opposing FG% at the rim among players with a similar sample size..the problem is that he's old and too slow to cover the pick&roll/recover outside, thus needing Splitter's mobility + the great perimeter pairing of Leonard/Green around him..that's fine, it worked last season, obviously..
Ibaka's weakness on defense is post D, he isn't a strong post defender, but individual post defense is less important in today's NBA, tbh(as Miami has shown)..
OKC has many good defensive players around Ibaka, I don't think anybody would deny that..
The Spurs' defense wouldn't be a problem if Pop went with last year's lineup IMO..the problem is the offense, due to Duncan playing more on the interior this season, because of the lack of confidence in his jump shot + Kawhi's 3-point shot has been broken..it has killed the offense and forced Pop to look for alternatives, which in turn, has harmed the defense..
I fully expect Pop to go back to the Green/Leonard/Splitter lineup in the playoffs, with the possibility of less Splitter, though..
Wasn't the Chicago the 2nd of a back to back? And Timmy was banging with Dwight Howard for 30 minutes the day before & had respectable numbers,, I wouldn't make too much of that 2nd game, especially considering Timmy's age. I'd have no doubt that Timmy would school Noah if push came to shove in they ever met in a 7 game series.
Spurs just need to get healthy. Leonard, Green, and Splitter are all excellent defensive players. Duncan needs their help, and if he gets it, he can block shots. Simple.
It was the 2nd, and they lost the 1st as well. I guess it's because that was a 1st of a back to back.
Tim's advantage over intimidating bigs has almost always been finesse and psychology. Even when guys like Amare would go off in the paint, Tim would come out on top because he keeps his head and gets his 20/10 while doing so. So you'd have this gawdy stat line for an opposing big but they'd lose because the big made some mental mistakes in crunch time. He's never had to put up gawdy numbers to win, but he's been solid on defense against most of the teams he's played. If he regains some mobility that should return as long as the team defense is there. It's never going to be like it was before, unless teams just ignore him which would be stupid.
I read your take but are you saying a cancerous Spur dragging down the defense or did you mean something else?
I guess so.
seeing the Pacers signed Bynum depressed me. The Pacers like the Thunder are younger versions of the Spurs that are making necessary changes to improve the team instead of standing pat. People say that Bynum is a cancer and there is no way in I'd bring his lazy behind onto a young team but on the Spurs his 'leadership' isn't needed. Sort of like the Patriots whom the Spurs are often compared to the Spurs way is so set in stone no malcontent could wreck it so bringing in Bynum just for defensive presence, I know he isn't known for defense but leaving him in the middle of the lane has to help for just a million dollars which the Pacers got him for would have been low risk high reward.
Bynum is a pig in a poke, and we've seen inside already.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
