Rasho and Nazr will not be Spurs...

[Marcus Bryant]

"when you have a guy making $2.5 mil a season who can do the job"

so far and until at least Christmas or beyond, that's only wishful thinking.

Given how the Spurs are so hot on dropping Rasho, it was Christmas in July when Oberto agreed to be a Spur for $2.5 mil a season...

[picnroll]

I think the situation is fluid and depends on several factors:
1) How Oberto plays. Personally I'm more confidnet his play will translate well to the NBA and the Spurs than Scola. He's more physical, aggressive and agile than Rasho and has a better BBall IQ than Nazr. If he's good he solves the Spurs third good bigman need. If not ...

2) How much will Nazr progress in playing the Spurs' defensive system? How much will he cost if he does? Can Rasho's contract be unloaded without bringing maoney back? If Nazr can't improve on playing the Spurs scheme adios Nazr. If Spurs can't free up money adios Nazr. If Nazr commands a big salary adios Nazr.

Ultimately it will comne down to a Nazr cost:effective, Oberto cost:effectiveness, Rasho unload equation

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Duncan as back-up center? NOOOOO! The Spurs made a concerted effort to limit Tim's minutes this season (although that doesn't help much when you roll an ankle the first two minutes of a game). Tim's still an incredible talent, but he's playing on a surgically repaired knee and plus those wacky ankles of his. I know they are supposed to make a full recovery but I"m going to be nervous just about every time he leaves his feet this year. Bottom line, even if you don't think that Nazr and Rasho are the right guys for the job here, Tim is not the answer as a back up center.

[JUUOT]

Timvp, i had the same line up on my paper.

end of 05-06
duncan nazr
oberto horry

end of 06-07
Duncan Oberto
scola horry javtokas

end of 07-08
Duncan Oberto
Scola Ian Javtokas

if oberto is not who we thought he could be you have to pay nazr next summer. however during the 07 summer you can trade him cause ian arrives...

[Marcus Bryant]

Duncan as back-up center? NOOOOO! The Spurs made a concerted effort to limit Tim's minutes this season (although that doesn't help much when you roll an ankle the first two minutes of a game). Tim's still an incredible talent, but he's playing on a surgically repaired knee and plus those wacky ankles of his. I know they are supposed to make a full recovery but I"m going to be nervous just about every time he leaves his feet this year. Bottom line, even if you don't think that Nazr and Rasho are the right guys for the job here, Tim is not the answer as a back up center.

Duncan's always been the backup 5.

[Sense]

Duncan's always been the backup 5.

Well technically... he hasn't played alot of minutes as a 5... unless they play a small team,then wouldn't affect Tim much.

[timvp]

Anytime Horry and Tim or on the court, Tim is playing center. In other words, in every fourth quarter of every playoff game.

[Marcus Bryant]

Whenever Horry (or Rose) came in for the starting 5, TD slid to the 5. He's seen roughly half of his minutes over the last couple of seasons at the 5.

[Sense]

Whenever Horry (or Rose) came in for the starting 5, TD slid to the 5. He's seen roughly half of his minutes over the last couple of seasons at the 5.

I'd go with 1/3.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's closer to half. This is why the Spurs have never placed much importance in having a strong backup center during TD's career and it's why the Spurs' primary bigman backup has been 6'4" tall Malik Rose or 225 lbs. small forward Robert Horry.

[SWC Bonfire]

end of 07-08
Duncan Oberto
Scola Ian Javtokas

if oberto is not who we thought he could be you have to pay nazr next summer. however during the 07 summer you can trade him cause ian arrives...

You think Ian factors into their decisions that quickly? The dude could be a stud, but he's still a frickin' teenager. I think he'll be a little farther down the line.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'm not saying that Tim has never played back-up center, I'm just saying that trimming down his minutes worked well for the Spurs this year, and they can do that better with at least Rasho and/or Nazr on the team. And as other things have said Oberto is something of a question mark at the moment. If there are teams that want them now chances are there are teams that are going to want them in January.

[Marcus Bryant]

With Oberto, Nazr and Horry in the rotation (for at least part of) next season, his minutes will be fine. Then next season Nazr is gone and Scola is here.

No mas problema.

[spurster]

Why pay Rasho or Nazr $7.5+ mil a season to do what Oberto will do for $2.5?

Indeed. Dumping Rasho and letting Nazr go is a sure way to get out lux tax terrority. Bring in Scola for the 2006-7 season and you have a cheaper bigman rotation with a lot more offensive punch.

If Oberto and Scola pan out.

I suppose another way of looking at it is that the Spurs could gamble and be in lux tax land (big contract for Nazr, hoping he will continue to play at a reasonable level) or gamble and be lux tax free (Oberto and Scola).

[Marcus Bryant]

When you consider how the Spurs have operated from a financial perspective as well as from a basketball persective recently, one does not see them spending a ton of $ on additional centers other than the one in the starting lineup. The Spurs seem to think that Oberto can start in this league. They will have Nazr to offer around the league to see what they can get to address other needs up until next season's trade deadline.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If we're going to lose Nazr I hope we at least get our long Bowen replacement out of that.

[Marcus Bryant]

You would think...

[Marcus Bryant]

Another way to think about it, the Spurs won a championship without that much of a contribution at all from their starting 5 or the 5 on the bench. Also, Nazr was not that great against the Pistons, the one team who at first glance you would expect to need strong play from the starting 5 to beat.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

True, but at the same time we're not going to have Robert Horry around for the rest of Duncan's prime either.

(and Nazr did average 8 and 7 in the Finals, I'd argue that was a good contribution).

[Marcus Bryant]

Rasho and Nazr seem more like old school centers. The league seems headed towards the more mobile and offensively skilled bigman. Oberto and Scola fit that profile better than Nazr and Rasho.

[Mark in Austin]

Just like Malik, Rasho will most likely be gone because his production does not justify his salary in the Spurs minds. If Rasho was putting up 10 and 8, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

And even though Marcus is in denial about it, if Malik had been making the same consistent contributions to the team last year that he made the year before signing his new contract, he would still be here too.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs decided that a bench player making the MLE for the next 4 seasons was not desirable once it was clear what Manu and TP would cost to retain long term. Also, with Horry around they had someone who could fit the role more cheaply.

So yes, it's basically the same situation today. Rasho and Nazr will be gone because Oberto will cost less.

[Pistonfan1]

...at this time next year. The writing is on the wall. These are still Holt Cat's Spurs. They've grown accustomed to having overspending teams subsidize their payroll through the luxury tax system. They just signed a center for $7.5 mil over 3 years. That's a great deal better than the $30 mil over 4 they are on the hook for to Radoslav or the $50+ mil over 5 or 6 years that Nazr is bound to command in free agency next summer.

Rasho will be dropped for anything. I would not even be surprised if they waive him under the lux tax amnesty clause. The Spurs will either be outbid in free agency next summer for Nazr (they might handle that DA-style) or they will move him before the trade deadline.

Why pay Rasho or Nazr $7.5+ mil a season to do what Oberto will do for $2.5?

We're the Spurs.®

Okay so you are saying youll lose Rasho and Nazr and have oberto as the only starting center left?? As a Piston fan I wished you were the Spurs GM so I could laugh at you trying to break up the team. God even as a Piston fan if you cut Rasho thats a stupid decision and if you get both of your centers for nothing thats even worse. You are not that much over the tax in fact I dont think your even at the threshhold.

[Marcus Bryant]

Okay so you are saying youll lose Rasho and Nazr and have oberto as the only starting center left??

That's what seems to be unfolding. Don't forget Duncan, he'd be the other center on the roster.

As a Piston fan I wished you were the Spurs GM so I could laugh at you trying to break up the team. God even as a Piston fan if you cut Rasho thats a stupid decision and if you get both of your centers for nothing thats even worse. You are not that much over the tax in fact I dont think your even at the threshhold.

Apparently as a Piston fan you have trouble understanding that just because someone states that something is going to happen, that does not necessarily mean that they endorse it.

I will say that the Spurs are a lot more exposed to the luxury tax than Piston fan seems able to understand.

[picnroll]

It's seems like the general trend is for more teams to not go flagrantly over the luxury tax limit. Even Cuban and Allen seemed to be getting religion.