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Perhaps I'm just guilty of thinking outside the box.
Manny, I'm sure you are a nice person too but you sometimes have a hard time understanding someone' who doesn't think like you do...and I don't mean that in a condescending manner either.
When Moveon.org used an ad that compared Bush to Hitler, that to me is "far-left" rhetoric and that example ALONE is enough for me. If it isn't for you than that is your opinion.
But I'm not going to lose any respect for your opinions because you are en led to and should make your own opinions based on what you believe, not on what others do.
To say you've lost a lot of respect for my political opinions does not bother me in slightest for then I would be upset based on "ONE" persons view.
And I used Congressman Meehan as an "EXAMPLE", never did I say I was basing my opinion of the Democratic party on the basis of one individual for he is not the only congressman or senator who I believe votes this way.
But I still respect your opinion even if it is not necessarily based on what I wrote but on what you read.
Perhaps I'm just guilty of thinking outside the box.
Joe if you're trying to go back to the days of JFK Democrats then I'm sorry but you're just a senile old man. No offense. Those days are long gone.
They'll never be like that because the world isn't the same as it was then. That's like me asking you to wear a shirt you used to wear when you were 17 and expecting it to fit.
Joe, I'm sorry, but I simply feel your base your opinions not on firsthand information, but the second hand rhetoric of talking heads. It took you several posts to give a reason why MoveOn.org was a radical organization and the only thing you have is that they supported an ad which compred Bush to Hitler.
I'm not sure if you have seen the ad, but I have a strong feeling you have not. Therefore, you are more than likely basing your opinion on the subject off of what you have heard in places like talk radio.
Your talk of wanting the to revive the party of JFK sounds all great and dandy and might give the warm fuzzies if there was actually substance to the desire other than a few choice quotes.
I'm no fan of the Democratic Party, and I have no need to defend them. I am, however, quite tired of not only rhetoric, but regurgitated rhetoric. It is bad enough to have to listen to so called voices of America spew their garbage without having people parrot them.
There is nothing radical about MoveOn.org or the Democratic Party.
With an at ude like that I can see why you think that way.
Senile old man? I don't think so and I could easily say you are a "young man who is talking from inexperience".
Sorry, no offense but those days are NOT long gone. What has happened is that the party has parted from the old JFK.
There was a time not too long ago when the democrats were the tax cutters and the republicans were the deficit hawks and it can be again.
NOT thinking outside the box has hurt both parties, in my opinion.
I'm not a straight democratic party ticket voter and never will be..well unless all the democratic candadates are clearly better than the other choices.
The image of the democratic party must change. When Kerry stated during his campaign that he "would defend this country will all his will", I think many Americans had bought into the "liberal democrats are weak on defense" rhetoric so cleverly managed by the conservative republican party.
It can be done!!!
I agree with that, but expecting it to change back to the way it was before is ludacris. There is no way that will happen ever. The image of the party will change, it has to, just like it changed from the "JFK" democrats to what you have now, it will change to something else.
But like I said, it's crazy to want it to change back to what it was before. It will never happen, no matter the at ude, the world is changing too much for that to happen.
Ludacris? Why bring rap music into this? Well, I think you are wrong. What I mean is the way the party needs to go and a JFK philosophy is not as far fetched as you may think.
Many thought that as you do about the Berlin Wall.
joe you're realizing that this country needs a viable 3rd party. Republicans are out of control and there is no viable alternative.
Times change though, Joe...Especially since 9-11, the whole political climate has changed. Would JFK still be a "JFK democrat" if 9-11 happened while he was in office? A person's policies and philosophy has to change along with the world and its events as they unfold...things that worked years ago might be considered off the wall these days.
I don't think you do think outside the box. You don't even seem to have your own opinions. All you talk about is how you feel and JFK. Tell me, what was so great about JFK? Also, your reason for why moveon.org is radical was an aforementioned ad in this thread. I think you saw the mention of the ad, then used that to backup your statement...not exactly outside the box. I happen to like Howard Dean, because, as far as Democrats go, he thinks outside the box. I'm gonna go ahead and think outside the box and say, that I would favor some radicalism in the Democrat party. Speaking OTB, I'm gonna say that NASA has been taken over by the republicans, and at this time funding should be cut. Just because Kennedy supported it doesn't mean you automatically should, if you are thinking outside the box. Everyone thinks outside the box, and I doubt you'll find someone who admits to repeating everything they here on the radio. Maybe you should stop using Kennedy as a crutch and think about things...like flag burning.
Is flag burning now illegal? I didn't hear anything about it, and if so that is bull . Also, I think you bought into the "Democrats are weak on defense" claim as well, as that was among your first comments on this thread(of course JFK was mentioned as well.)
The opinions I express are my own but I agree with some of JFK's vision and views. Howard Dean is not the way to go and he alienates too many democrats. I support NASA and space exploration for the benefits it can bring mankind and deserves the funding it needs. That is MY opinion.
Who the is using JFK as a crutch? I'm using him as an example of where I feel the democratic party should be but not as a crutch. I'm not sure where that came from.
NO I haven't bought into the "democrats are weak on defense" BS, that was my whole point. Democrats ARE NOT WEAK on defense. Damn it get it right!
I don't always think "democrats" are always right and the only way to go. That to me is thinking outside the box.
There are many in here who will not question Bush's policies and always spin them to make him look good.
You get defensive, but you don't explain your defense. In the first post on this thread Manny qouted you to say, "Most know that I'm a democrat but it is time we JFK democrats took the party back from the left wing radicals. While I'm for civil liberties I'm also for protecting the people. But let's hear some better options as well." I took that to mean that you think the Democrat party is weak on defense, because it was controlled by left wing radicals. Maybe you screwed up and didn't mean it that way, and if so, tell me how I didn't "get it right." I am not a Democrat, but I hate Republicans, and could never vote for one. My choice is almost always Democrat for lack of an alternative. I like the Green party, but that was not on the presidential ballot, and thus I was forced to vote for Kerry. Also, you keep saying "JFK democrats" and I don't know what you think that means. You just seem to support anything having to do with Kennedy.
Howard Dean is not a left wing radical.
Howard Dean is an economic conservative (he believes in balanced budgets)
Howard Dean is anti-Iraq war (if that makes you a left wing radical, sign me up)
Howard Dean says inflammatory things (he is chairman of the Democratic party and part of his job is to motivate Democrats and tick off Republicans)
Most of what people believe about Howard Dean is what the right wing noise machine frames Howard Dean as.
I'd rather have Howard Dean popping off about something that upsets Sean Hannity or Joe Scarborough than the milk toast type of response that John Kerry had when the swift boat goons came out smearing.
Exactly. ing, EXACTLY.
Left Wing Radicals my ass.
I never said he was a left wing radical. I said he thinks outside the box(partially as a rip on Joe C.) I just think, as far as the Democratic primary, he would have been my favorite one to be forced into voting for. How could the media find his scream so funny/odd? It was just a rally cry. I swear this country is full of assholes.
Howard Dean : Republicans are “pretty much a white, Christian party.”
I wonder how many "White Christian Democrats" Dean alienated with this asinine declaration!
Dean's job is to "tick off Republicans?" I thought maybe his job would be to find "real solutions to real problems"!
Chalupa's right, the Dems have lost their luster.
That's what I like to hear. Maybe a couple of jackasses were "ticked off," but who cares. Politicians do too much schmoozing. Is it so wrong to be a human. Evidently so, because he is percieved as a nutcase. Democrats are for republicans.
Obviously there is something wrong with the Party when they had 11% vote for Bush this last election. Mostly because of "morality"
what makes MoveOn.org a radical left organization is their vitrol for bush and their extremist view on the president. John kerry might not like bush or his policies.. but he wouldnt compare bush to hitler. Moveon.org did
Exactly. ing, EXACTLY.
Left Wing Radicals my ass is right!!
And sorry if I wasn't the one to come up with that response but thanks for posting it. And again, if you don't think MoveOn.org is far left than that is your right but it doesn't make mine wrong.
And I DO think Howard Dean is too far left but that is just me.
To each his own.
Howard dean is the chair of the party. Trust me. they are the radicals allong with moveon.org.
I concur.
Howard Dean is slow to judge Osama but quick to hang Delay!!
i mean if you cant see the overt left wing radicalism then you are wrong in every sense. Sorry if you hate labels. But Manny does seem to have a sort of love hate relationship towards the liberal tag. he is liberal, and he's probably ashamed to admit it.
i find nothing wrong with being liberal. Its the way some people back liberal ideology and defend it as well as articulate it that turns many people off as well as myself. and believe me.. if the party doesnt proclaim the middle it will die a slow painful death.
You guys supply constant humor. Joe didn't even know why he considered MoveOn.org a radical organization until someone posted a reason for him, he focuses on individuals of the Democratic Party in order to say they are radical, and ignores the reality of how the votes Democrats in Congress have made recently have played out.
BTW, next time you decide to use a word to descirbe an organization you may want to know the context it is used in. Radical organizations do not run ads on TV. Instead, they blow up the TV.
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