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He obviously felt it was a good reason.
Either that or he was an idiot who picked the absolute worst profession to be in for someone who doesn't want to be in a war.
We don't know what his beliefs were, it's quite possible he didn't want to be there and the only reason he was, was because his brothers had to be there. I don't know the entire set of cir stances so I won't go there.
As for respecting the will of the people, she doesn't have to do that for reasons I already outlined.
He obviously felt it was a good reason.
Either that or he was an idiot who picked the absolute worst profession to be in for someone who doesn't want to be in a war.
If he didn't want to be in a war, he shouldn't have joined the military. He does not get the right, alive or dead, to choose the war or determine it's righteousness once he is in the military.
Again, he was not drafted, he volunteered.
Um..if you live in a Democracy you had best learn to respect the will of the people, or else you just aren't getting it.As for respecting the will of the people, she doesn't have to do that for reasons I already outlined.
And she can protest all she wants...but when she sticks his face on her cause she is dishonoring every thing he lived and died for, and using it to pursue her own agenda. Protest away...but don't stick his face on her protest and use his death to give it more power, he didn't die for her to achieve her anti-war stance...his stance appears to be the exact opposite of hers.
And even if it wasn't...ooops...if you don't want to fight in a war then don't join the military. It's not Rocket Science.
What she is doing is wrong.
Exactly, just because he fought in the war doesn't mean he has to think it was righteous. We don't know that he thought the cause was righteous so when you said he felt it was for a good reason. I'm saying we don't know if the reason he was there was he felt he should go for the iraqi's or he wanted to be there because his brothers were there.
There have been many times the will of the people has changed because the minority rose up to challenge it, correct?
It doesn't matter. No one forced him to go. He had the freedom to choose what he did.
Anytime the minority is imposing it's will on the majority it is an oppressive situation. Because that's the only way the minority can impose it's will. History shows this to be true 100% of the time.There have been many times the will of the people has changed because the minority rose up to challenge it, correct?
Here is an open letter by this woman to George Bush...as I suspected...she's whoring her sons death out for her own beliefs.
AN OPEN LETTER TO GEORGE BUSH
November 4, 2004
Dear George,
You don’t mind if I call you George do you? When you sent me a letter offering your condolences on the death of my son, Spc. Casey Austin Sheehan, in the illegal and unjust war on Iraq, you called me Cindy, so I naturally assume we are on a first name basis.
George, it has been seven months today since your reckless and wanton foreign policies killed my son, my big boy, my hero, my best-friend: Casey. It has been seven months since your ignorant and arrogant lack of planning for the peace murdered my oldest child. It has been two days since your dishonest campaign stole another election…but you all were way more subtle this time than in 2000, weren’t you? You hardly had to get the Supreme Court of the United States involved at all this week.
You feel so proud of yourself for betraying the country again, don’t you? You think you are very clever because you pulled the wool over the eyes of some of the people again. You think that you have some mandate from God…that you can “spend your political capital” any way that you want. George you don’t care or even realize that 56,000,000 plus citizens of this country voted against you and your agenda. Still, you are going to continue your ruthless work of being a divider and not a uniter. George, in 2000 when you stole that election and the Democrats gave up, I gave up too. I had the most ironic thought of my life then: "Oh well, how much damage can he do in four years?" Well, now I know how much you have damaged my family, this country, and this world. If you think I am going to allow you another four years to do even more damage, then you truly are mistaken. I will fight for a true vote count and if that fails, your impeachment. Also, the impeachment of your Vice President. The only thing is, I'm not politically savvy, and I don't have a Karl Rove to plan my strategy, but I do have a big mouth and a righteous cause, which still mean something in this country, I hope.
All of this lying, fooling, and betraying must be “hard work” George. You really think you know what hard work is?
George, let me tell you what “hard work” really is.
Hard work is seeing your oldest son, your brave and honorable man-child go off to a war that had, and still has, no basis in reality. Hard work is worrying yourself gray and not being able to sleep for 2 weeks because you don’t know if your child is safe.
Hard work is seeing your son’s murder on CNN one Sunday evening while you’re enjoying the last supper you’ll ever truly enjoy again.
Hard work is having three military officers come to your house a few hours later to confirm the aforementioned murder of your son…your first born…your kind and gentle sweet baby.
Hard work is burying your child 46 days before his 25th birthday. Hard work is holding your other three children as they lower the body of their big “baba” into the ground. Hard work is not jumping in the grave with him and having the earth cover you both.
But, Dear George, do you know what the hardest work of all is? Trying to digest the fact that the leader of the country that your family has fought for and died for, for generations, lied to you and betrayed your dear boy’s sense of honor and exploited his courage and exploited his loyalty to his buddies. Hard work is having your country abandon you after they killed your son. Hard work is coming to the realization that your son had his future robbed from him and that you have had your son's future and future grand-children stolen from you. Hard work is knowing that there are so many people in this world that have prospered handsomely from your son's death.
George, I must confess that I and my family worked very HARD to re-defeat you this time, but you refuse to stay defeated. Well, we are watching you very carefully. We are going to do everything in our power to have you impeached for misleading the American people into a disastrous war and for mis-using and abusing your power as Commander-in-Chief. We are going to scream until our last breath to bring the rest of our babies home from this quagmire of a war that you have gotten our country in to: before too many more families learn the true meaning of Hard Work. We know it is going to be an uphill battle, knowing how Republican Congress is, but thanks to you, we know the meaning of Hard Work and we’re not afraid of hard work at all.
The 56,000,000 plus citizens who voted against you and your agenda have given me a mandate to move forward with my agenda. Also, thanks to you and your careless domestic policies, I am unemployed, so this will be my full-time job. Being your political downfall will be the most noble accomplishment of my life and it will bring justice for my son and 1125 (so far) other brave Americans and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis your lies have killed. By the way, George, how many more innocent Iraqis are your policies going to kill before you convince them that you are better than Saddam? How many more of their cities are you going to level before you consider that they are liberated? If you really had any moral values, or if you were an honorable man at all you would resign. My son was a man who had high moral values and true courage. Humanity lost a bright light on April 04, 2004. I will live the rest of my life missing Casey desperately. Thank you for that, George. Have a nice day.
I do not see one sentence there where she said her son was against this war and did not want to go over there in fight...
And believe me...the way this goes for the jugular she certainly would be saying it if it were true.
She's a selfish woman and she's missing the point that her son was making. I mourn her loss, sincerely. But I have no respect for the way she chooses to use her sons death. She's the one saying he died for nothing, she's the one rendering his death meaningless. And she wants to make it even more meaningless.
I'd be more impressed with her stance if she was anti-Kerry as well...seeing as how he, along with the rest of congress, gave the President the power to take us into this war. And Kerry sat on the Senate intelligence commitee for a decade.
The majority can change their outlook, and then the minority viewpoint becomes the majority. But the minority has to get their viewpoint out there. That's why we are given the Right to peaceful assembly.
Um...we've heard the minority viewpoint. Ad nauseum, we've held an election and given a mandate.
Again..I can live with her anti war stance...but her sticking her sons face on it is wrong.
wheres that letter from?
Without knowing everything I won't totally agree with either side of what this lady is doing. I was mostly arguing about when you said she has to respect the will of the people.
This is from Casey Sheehan's obituary:
Sheehan was killed Sunday in a fire-fight outside Baghdad. Sheehan’s family members said his sergeant told them he and another soldier, Cpl. Forest J. Jostes, volunteered to be part of a quick response team when rioting started in Baghdad.
“He didn’t have to go,” said Sheehan’s 23-year-old sister, Carly. “He would do anything for anybody. He’d give you the shirt off his back. He was just a loving and caring person.”
Carly Sheehan said her brother was active in his Catholic church, spending 10 years as an altar server and serving in the youth ministry.
“That’s all he wanted to do was serve God and his country his whole life,” Carly Sheehan said. “He was a boy scout from age 6 or 7 and an Eagle Scout. It was kind of a natural progression to go into the military from that. He said he was enjoying the military because it was just like the boy scouts but they got guns.”
— Associated Press
Like I said, this man was a hero and she's using his death in a cause, her cause, that ran directly against what he believed...He's the one that died, not her.
just like the boy scouts...
but different
Here is the link to his mothers site, that's where I got the letter from:
http://www.angelfire.com/sk3/spkhntrca/Casey.html
She gets it...why don't you?
Don't even try and use this guy to justify an antiwar stance and say this war is unjust...because you don't have that right, and neither does his mother. He died for entirely different reasons.
i get what youre saying
i would like to able to trust a president to only go to war for a good reason.
not to
disarm Saddam
no
liberate Iraq
no
set up a foothold of democracy in the middle east
no
fight terror
yeah thats it
Do I need to post the links...for the 1 billionth time...that list every world leader from Bill Clinton to Jaques Chirac to Kofi Anan...saying that Saddam was a threat that needed to be removed.
On top of that...Usama cited the suffering of the Iraqi people under the UN sanctions as one of the reasons for the September 11th attacks...
Sanctions that were factually proven to be corrupted by the UN itself...Saddam weapons and WMD materials under the OFF program while his people starved, while UN diplomats, and France, Germany and Russia profited, and the US was blamed for it...
So what should we have done? Lifted the sanctions? Even though Saddam kicked the UN weapons inspectors out Iraq 4 years prior to the war? Even though he violated the condictions of the cease fire a full 10 years previously? Even though his WMD capabilities were found to be far more advanced at the end of the Persian Gulf war than anyone suspected?
There was no terrorist army we could engage militarily prior to the Iraq and Afghan war, it was a shadow army ...well there is now, these fronts brought them to the surface. And the remifications of the US War in Iraq are being felt in cries for Democratic reform in virtually every country over there, and their leaders got the message as well...and that is how you fight terrorism. You do not give them what they want...you do not let terrorism work. It must fail if you want it to go away. If it works it will never go away...and you will have a minority dictating to a majority.
Who considered Saddam a threat? The Kurds? The Shiite? Saddam was landlocked and embargoed. He wasn't a threat to anybody let alone the U.S. Yeah, Clinton thought Saddam was an SOB, but when PNAC presented Clinton a proposal to go into Iraq during his presidency he told them to go take a flying leap with their cooked up plans. Too bad W didn't heed Clinton's advice.Do I need to post the links...for the 1 billionth time...that list every world leader from Bill Clinton to Jaques Chirac to Kofi Anan...saying that Saddam was a threat that needed to be removed.
Whott, the biggest beneficiaries of the (semi-legal) oil couponing going on with Saddam under the oil-for-food program was rich Texas oil men.Sanctions that were factually proven to be corrupted by the UN itself...Saddam weapons and WMD materials under the OFF program while his people starved, while UN diplomats, and France, Germany and Russia profited, and the US was blamed for it...
Whatever issues Saddam may have had with UN inspectors they had obviously been solved in the months immediately preceeding the war because Iraq was fully cooperating with the inspectors. He was in full compliance and Hans Blix was telling us there was nothing there. In fact, it was the US, not Iraq that ordered UN inspectors out of Iraq in early 03, immediately before the U.S. attacked Iraq.So what should we have done? Lifted the sanctions? Even though Saddam kicked the UN weapons inspectors out Iraq 4 years prior to the war? Even though he violated the condictions of the cease fire a full 10 years previously? Even though his WMD capabilities were found to be far more advanced at the end of the Persian Gulf war than anyone suspected?
What WMD capabilities? Saddam had nothing.
Yeah Clinton was big on not doing anything...hence 911.
I think I remember reading somewhere that Clinton could never in good conscience send the US into a war...him being a draft dodger and all.
Um...I'll post all the links to this stuff tomorrow, again...I know it's on the forum somewhere.
That's from a different obituary.Army Spc. Casey Sheehan died in Baghdad on April 4, 2004. The 24-year-old former Eagle Scout had been in Iraq about two weeks, serving with the 5th Cavalry Regiment of the 1st Cavalry Division. On the day Casey died his sergeant told him that as a mechanic he didn’t have to go on the mission that killed him. Casey simply replied, “Where my chief goes, I go.”
Okey, dokey, meanwhile Casey Sheehan has released a statement...
More:Daily KosCamp Casey
Peaceful Occupation of Crawford, Texas
by Cindy Sheehan
Sun Aug 7th, 2005 at 14:13:38 PDT
Day One
The first day of the beginning of the end of the occupation of Iraq.
Today we went into the belly of the beast in Crawford, Texas...and lived to tell about it.
On Wednesday, August 3rd, 2005, I had a brainstorm. I was so furious about the horrible loss of life, especially from the Marine National Guard unit from Ohio. I was also so heartbroken for the families who have been wrongfully left behind. Then to top off the indignity and profanity of the needless deaths, George Bush spoke out after the deaths and said 2 things that enraged me further:
"The families of the fallen can rest assured that your loved ones died for a noble cause."
And
"We have to honor the sacrifices of the fallen by completing the mission."
The first statement is so blatantly false that it angered me for a couple of reasons. First of all, what is the noble cause? The cause changes at will when the previous cause has been proven a lie. Secondly, because many people in America, when they hear such drivel, allow themselves to be "assured." A lot of people heard that falsehood and said: "Whew, 14 Marines in one incident, that's bad, but the President said they died for a noble cause. We can get on with our consumering now"
George Bush has spewed the second filth many times and each time it upsets me more. As a mother, why would I want any other mother (American or Iraqi) to go through the same pain as I am suffering through? My son, Casey was an honorable man filled with an integrity rarely seen these days. I am sure that he would be appalled that George uses his death to justify continued killing. I am appalled that George exploits the senseless sacrifice of my family to justify his murderous policies in the Middle East. Also, does it bother anyone else that this man can take a 5 week vacation when our soldiers are suffering, dying and being maimed in Iraq? When innocent Iraqi people are being murdered everyday? When I will never be able to fully enjoy another vacation for the rest of my life?
It was the same dedication the 1997 Vacaville High School graduate showed when he re-enlisted in August to serve his country and make his family proud.
Not only did he join to serve his country...he re-enlisted after we were already in Iraq.
Still think he had the same POV as his mom? Still think it's right for her to use him the way she is using him(her agenda, not his)?
His mother is not just dishonoring his memory....she's disgracing it.
It wasn't just Clinton. It was also the Republican controlled legislature. When he bombed the supposed 'WMD' factory in Sudan and targets in Afghanistan he was accused of waging the dog by Congress. Do you seriously think the Senate would have allowed Clinton to go into Afghanistan and break the 24-7 Monica Lewingski coverage by the corporate media shills?Yeah Clinton was big on not doing anything...hence 911.
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